I´ve got some (low priority?) suggestions to improve FleetOp

[Stoned Rhyno]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 2:14 pm

Last edited by Stoned Rhyno on April 19th, 2011, 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

- The Prometheus could be a warp in experimental ship like the descent class, as a randomly chosen alternative. But the Prometheus should not be the overpowered godlike ship, which many people have in mind. It is just a cool looking ship with a balanced special ability to increase it´s firepower.

- The Danube could be a scout ship with slightly different stats for one of both federation avatars.

- There are so many ways to implement the Sovereigns Class with Nemesis refit into the game - mixedtech, avatars, default upgrade, experience level - your mod offers many possibilities.

- It would be cool to have a special ability button for the Intrepid Class and klingon bird of prey ships in order to move their nacelles/wings. Even if there is no tactical use for them in the game, it would drastically increase Trek atmosphere.

- I am strongly convinced, that the Norway class is a carrier for the peregrine raiders. just look at the Star Trek FactFiles, as much as I remember, it can hold up to 20 shuttles and the whole backside of the ship is a hangar.
Or just look right here: Norway class - Memory Beta, non-canon Star Trek Wiki
Maybe you would consider it to switch the Norway class SOD with Risners Phalanx class.


- If you ever consider to rework the Klingons, they should play more like real warriors (slow repairs, cheap new ships, honor as a global experience system), because klingons like to die in battle to join their ancestors in Sto´vo´kor

- Borg Spheres may also improve in style with upgradeable tactical armor.

- I would like to see the return of the fusion cube (Limited by officers/credits/vinculi, or whatever, to one ship at a time). But it should look like one complete ship, not that stupid rhobus cube from Armada 2.

- With the exception of mining stations and shipyards, the borg stations could be combined to one single modular unicomplex.


- The avatars should really be replaced with more recognizeable Trek characters.
I know, you guys wrote your own campaign story which you obviously care much about. But every one else does not know it yet, so there is no identification with the characters. I am sorry that I have a problem with that, but as a Star Trek game, it should be enriched with characters from the series.
Admiral Risner, Mayson, etc. can still return with their friends and enemies in your Campaign, when you release it.

E.g. the avatars could be like that (including possible third avatars):
- Federation: Janeway, Ross, Section 31(Risner)
- Klingon: Martok, House of Duras (Toral), TaQ´roja (or some Female Klingon)
- Romulans: Sela(TalShiar), Donatra, Remans
- Dominion: Weyoun, Breen, Cardassians
- Borg: Queen(Perfection), Locutus(Adaption), Collective(Assimilation)


Of course those "cosmetical" featres should not be high priority, but if you consider at least some of them, I would very much apprechiate it. As well as any other Star Trek fan, who most of us FleetOps players are, I guess.

[Tyler]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 2:19 pm

Last edited by Tyler on April 19th, 2011, 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

- I am strongly convinced, that the Norway class is a carrier for the peregrine raiders. just look at the Star Trk FactFiles, as much as I remember, it can hold up to 20 shuttles and the whole backside of the ship is a hangar.
Just look here: Norway class - Memory Beta, non-canon Star Trek Wiki
Maybe you would consider it to switch the Norway class SOD with Risners Phalanx class.

Far too small to be even remotly justified as a carrier.

- If you ever consider to rework the Klingons, they should be more like a Kamikaze race (slow repairs, cheap new ships, global experience), because klingons like to die in battle to join their ancestors in Sto´vo´kor

Dominion ability.

- I would like to see the return of the fusion cube (Limited by officers/credits/vinculi, or whatever, to one ship at a time). But it should look like one complete ship, not that stupid rhobus cube from Armada 2.

Command Cube is planned for later. Should fit the bill.

- With the exception of mining stations and shipyards, the borg stations could be combined to one single modular unicomplex.

That's reserved for the Iconians.

- The avatars should really be replaced with more recognizeable Trek characters.
I know, you guys wrote your own campaign story which you obviously care much about. But every one else does not know it yet, so there is no identification with the characters. I am sorry that I have a problem with that, but as a Star Trek game, it should be enriched with characters from the series.
Admiral Risner, Mayson, etc. can still return with their friends and enemies in your Campaign, when you release it.

E.g. the avatars could be like that (including possible third avatars):
- Federation: Janeway, Ross, Section 31(Risner)
- Klingon: Martok, House of Duras (Toral), TaQ´roja (or some Female Klingon)
- Romulans: Sela(TalShiar), Donatra, Remans
- Dominion: Weyoun, Breen, Cardassians
- Borg: Queen(Perfection), Locutus(Adaption), Collective(Assimilation)

Many of them would be probably be dead or retired by now. Remans will never see a ship. Cardassians will never be in the Dominion again, as they hate them. The Borg would not likely have reason to recreate Locutus as his purpose was a failure.


Refit for Sovereign and Tactical Shpere (despite opposing the Borg module thing) I like. Don't mean to sound like I'm being cruel here...

posted on April 19th, 2011, 2:23 pm

weyoun is dead, the cardies are a broken race, locutus doesnt exist, remans are slaves again, janeway is in prison for numerous violations of the prime directive and abuse of coffee (i hope )

i like the current avatars.

ninjad

[Stoned Rhyno]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 2:27 pm

Last edited by Stoned Rhyno on April 19th, 2011, 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dominion ability.

Sorry i misspelled. I didn´t mean the Special Ability, I meant the balance for the ships of the whole klingon race.
I mean that slow repairs and cheap new ships would change players tactics to rather build new ships instead of (cowardly) reatreating for repairs.
A global experience system instead of leveling each ship would support that way of playing klingons.


As for the avatar suggestion:
there is no rule that tells the player the period of time. There is not even a story in skirmish or multiplayer. It could be even a situation in a mirror universe.
- There could be a Weyoun backup in the gamma quadrant.
- The Dominion could also clone a new Cardassian slave race
- Locutus returns in the Novel "Regeneration"
- Janeway will be the new Borg queen who assimilates Species 8472 and the whole galaxy. As a result, all playable races are borg. Their ships look like cups which are fuelled with coffee.
- The Remans are a klingon Avatar, because Klingons conquered Romulus and accidently destroyed it. They used JJ Abrams as a scapegoat.

Those deatails are meaningless because it is not the story that matters, it is the familiarity of  the faces you represent with your avatar. And after all, it is just a suggestion, I don´t force anyone to like it .

[Dircome]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 3:08 pm

Last edited by Dircome on April 20th, 2011, 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fleetops is set 35 years after the end of the dominion war check the guide for more info

[Tyler]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 3:14 pm

Last edited by Tyler on April 19th, 2011, 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As for the avatar suggestion:
- There could be a Weyoun backup in the gamma quadrant.
- The Dominion could also clone a new Cardassian slave race
- Locutus returns in the Novel "Regeneration"

No more Weyouns left; he mentions the possibilty of him as the last guiding the rebels target choice and the Founder said there are none left. They have no reason to clone Cardassians when the Jem'Hadar are so much better for their needs. Locutus also returns in A1, don't mean there's a reason for it.

Locutus as a map unit (probably from an alternate reality) would be the most likely way he's added. Weyoun might have a back-up in the Gamma Quadrent (though DS9 implies that's not the case), but that would be useless to the ones in-game who are mainly a faction trapped in the Alpha after the war.

Those deatails are meaningless because it is not the story that matters, it is the familiarity of  the faces you represent with your avatar. And after all, it is just a suggestion, I don´t force anyone to like it .

Story matters, as FO is working along a storyline.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 3:53 pm

No more Weyouns left ... They have no reason to clone Cardassians ...

Come on, I was just joking and exaggerating on this.

Story matters, as FO is working along a storyline.

As long as there is no campaign, there is no story in FO. If the FO story is so important, why can´t we read it in order to identify with the avatars?

Sorry, I don´t mean to be rude, I just want to make my point clear, why known TV show avatars would work in my opionion better than some unknown characters that merely exist in the head of FO developers.
For the game in its current state (without story campaign), I just thought the avatar feature would be predestined to add some Trek bonus, because it is imo obvios that people like to identify with characters they now.

I neither like nor dislike the current avatars. But in my eyes they are not avatars, they are just random pictures with names. Nevertheless it is not me who is putting much hard work into making this cool game. So I am looking forward to the campaign and its story.

btw. Shouldn´t Martok look recognizeably older, 35 years after the Dominion War?

[Tyler]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 3:56 pm

Last edited by Tyler on April 19th, 2011, 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As long as there is no campaign, there is no story in FO. If the FO story is so important, why can´t we read it in order to identify with the avatars?

I neither like nor dislike the current avatars. But in my eyes they are not avatars, they are just random pictures with names. Nevertheless it is not me who is putting much hard work into making this cool game. So I am looking forward to the campaign and its story.

Actually, there is information on the FO timeline and the avatars. Right here: Apocrypha

btw. Shouldn´t Martok look recognizeably older, 35 years after the Dominion War?

Klingons age different to Humans, probably protects him from unwanted the side-effects of aging.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 4:17 pm

Actually, there is information on the FO timeline and the avatars. Right here: Apocrypha

Never heard that kind of word before . Looks like I have got something to read.


Regarding your first post: You don´t sound cruel, you make valid points there. thx!

I just have something to add:
Afair, the Phalanx class does not look much bigger than the Norway class, it´s design is also to narrow to support big shutte bays - just a thought.
But fighters are cool anyway, no matter which carrier they come from.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 4:23 pm

i think you are talking about the avalon, thats risners carrier, the phalanx is a battleship.

tha avalon does look bigger than a norway.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 4:27 pm

Avalon is the carrier, the Phalanx is the one with a big gun under the saucer*. It's thicker than the Norway with both sections to spread systems through, while the Norway is mostly just a Saucer that has the lot in. Interior space can be misleading, especially since the in-game scale is a bit off.

It could probably handle the same 'emergency hanger' as the Akira and Sovereign, to support allied fighters. The lesser interior space wouldn't matter as much with that function.

* Ninja'd

posted on April 19th, 2011, 5:26 pm

How can an aircraft carrier-sized ship be too small to be considered a carrier?  An Intrepid can be refitted into a very efficient carrier without needing to increase it's size.  The Norway is big enough to be a carrier.

The fusion cube was the most illogical vessel in the Armada series and should not be implemented in any way.  And they should do away with the stations and have vessels to take their place.  The Borg only had two types of stations.  The central unicomplex, and 6 transwarp hubs (make that 5 because the Federation destroyed one of them).

I'm opposed to avatars as they are the secondary reason for the game being unbalanced.  The primary reason is redundant passives making counters impossible.  The Cardassians were crushed by the Dominion and is dependant on the Federation to recover from their extreme losses during the war.  Although the Cardassians brought it upon themselves.

---

Janeway isn't in prison.  She is an admiral at Starfleet Command.  Although during the Borg-8472 war, if the Tereanan's found out that Janeway made an alliance with the Borg, enemy of 8472 and the Tereanans, a ship would have been dispatched to destroy Voyager for aiding the enemy and interfering with a war.  Voyager never would have made it home.  They would have been destroyed with the collective.

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Having these "command cubes" is illogical.  If the Enerprise hadn't shown up during the battle of Earth, the Borg would have destroyed every Federation ship that fired on it.  The cubes are far underpowered in Fleet Ops and don't give me that it needs to be balanced excuse.

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As for the story line, make a series of missions to carry it out.  Outside of mission mode there is no reason that factions like the Cardassians can't be put in.  And put the Breen in as a playable Faction outside of the Dominion.  Species 8472 can be a map object and should be capable of being drawn in by the Cardassians at your own risk.

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Planets and colonization have to be put back in as objects that affect game play as well as map height.  Although star trek didn't use all three axis that much, during battle, all three axis were used.  Especially in large battles.  Plus, each faction should have a way of calling in for reinforcements or having some way to make a last ditch effort to survive and turn the tide of the game.

[Tyler]

posted on April 19th, 2011, 5:29 pm

Last edited by Tyler on April 19th, 2011, 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I wondered when you'd chine in TBalancehater500...

posted on April 19th, 2011, 6:02 pm

no point for hangars on a norway (in game) as fighters are risner and norways are gayson.

i dont think there is enough space in an intrep or a norway for hangars of any type, despite what voyager shows of stupidly large shuttlebays (Drive anyone?) they arent carriers, they are ships that support shuttles.

Having these "command cubes" is illogical.  If the Enerprise hadn't shown up during the battle of Earth, the Borg would have destroyed every Federation ship that fired on it.  The cubes are far underpowered in Fleet Ops and don't give me that it needs to be balanced excuse.

cubes arent up, a standard full tac cube puts out a stupid amount of damage, sorta like the damage we saw in the show. the difference is in the amount of damage they take in return. in the show we saw the cube go up against a fleet of fed ships in bobw, and that was the first time they had engaged the borg in fleet combat, it was the first serious combat experience they had with the borg, they were obviously gonna get their arse kicked. in fc they improved, doing more visible damage to the cube. with voyager and 7 of tit's experience with the borg they could probably improve their damage against borg ships.

but more importantly, balance isnt an excuse, this is a game, the point of the game is to have fun, not to simulate canon trek. if it was a simulator then the borg would pwn everyone so badly that you wouldnt place borg ships on a map ever. as the point is to have fun nothing should take away from that fun, and there is no fun playing an imbalanced game, no fun at all, in fact losing because your opponent played op borg would be really frustrating and cause rage quits. then nobody would play the game. so yes, gameplay is way more important than canon, cos we arent playing it to be accurate to canon, we are playing it for fun.

do you really want a ship that can destroy 40 ships with ease? of course you do, you are designing such god ships for your mod, but the rest of us dont.

As for the story line, make a series of missions to carry it out.  Outside of mission mode there is no reason that factions like the Cardassians can't be put in.  And put the Breen in as a playable Faction outside of the Dominion.  Species 8472 can be a map object and should be capable of being drawn in by the Cardassians at your own risk.

there is a reason cardies cant be put in as a race, the dominion war left them broken as a species, they deserve to be in as an npc only. breen never seemed powerful enough either, they had to ally with the dominion before they were ready to go attack people. 8472 map object sounds ok, not a fan of cardies being involved with them like in vanilla, i found that stupid.

Planets and colonization have to be put back in as objects that affect game play as well as map height.  Although star trek didn't use all three axis that much, during battle, all three axis were used.  Especially in large battles.  Plus, each faction should have a way of calling in for reinforcements or having some way to make a last ditch effort to survive and turn the tide of the game.

none of this HAS to be done the way you say. planets and colonies i didnt think was very fun, this game is about blowing up the enemy, not colonising planets, and 3d movement was stupid as well. warpins are fed unique. i dont want all races having a warpin lol. and why a last ditch magic thing that changes the course of the game? if you are losing you should die, not get a magic survival spell. thats what i dont like about some games like mario kart, the people playing badly and in a lower place get help to climb the positions, people who are being beaten obviously should be beaten, not get some help to win. for mario kart it doesnt really bother me cos its a very friendly and fun game, its not really about the position you come in.

speaking for myself i dont want planets and colonies back, i dont want 3d movement back and i dont want warpins for all races.

posted on April 19th, 2011, 6:03 pm

Hey chapman I don't get why you have to drag every conversation towards your Tereanans into this, but why would they destroy Voyager they made it very clear that 8472 wasn't going to stop at the borg and were planning to wipe out all life

The new avatars are needed because there will be campaigns eventually and that is what they are for. Also the borg need to be able to build structures separately for balance