dominion upgrades.

[Anonymous]

posted on March 5th, 2012, 5:29 am

Last edited by Anonymous on March 5th, 2012, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

styer disagreed with that, you disagreed with him, i disagreed with you.

I Liek this 

I said claims not rushes. Every single dominion miner can be a constructor and vice versa, which i believe you people underutilize this ability and you can pretty much lay down your entire infrastructure immediately, and lets face it, there is no claim once you got down both mines and the yard.

Sure one can rush one single constructor down there but what would it cost? A second yard? A starfleet command? Leave the first expansion unturreted and exposed?

Lets face it, against the "beat his wife and kids" violent dominion player its just too much time wasted on precious construction that can be used to succesfully take on the dominion.

You can't only factor in constructor speed and construction rate and say "I win", you have to look at it from the perspective on "how much will it really cost" and im not just talking about resources.

I still think that the feds got the ball when it comes to expanding

[Tryptic]

posted on March 5th, 2012, 8:04 am

Last edited by Tryptic on March 5th, 2012, 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The feds do have a rather large advantage in instant claims and turret rushes, but the Dominion can build up and expand at the same time.  I think if the starting resources were lower, it would make a bigger difference whether you build your mining right away, which in turn would make fast-expands and rushes weaker than they are now.

The feds face an interesting balance problem: they excel at fast expanding but they tend to have trouble expanding if they don't do it right away because their structures build so slowly.  The Dominion is in a unique position to challenge their early expansions, since Dominion turrets are dirt cheap and deal extra damage to shields, which Fed turrets and ships have a lot of.

[Anonymous]

posted on March 5th, 2012, 8:33 am

Last edited by Anonymous on March 5th, 2012, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

message removed by crisis

[Beef]

posted on March 5th, 2012, 4:48 pm

Last edited by Beef on March 5th, 2012, 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Will you look at that skank, he insta-changed his profile!

Don't make any nonesence with the apologies. Unlike some other people, to whom you can't even wipe your ass in front of him without hurting his feelings, im a bit less sensitive. The irony is that these are the people that make me boil by the way.

I Liek this

Oi! Like something like it on facebook and you'll receive statrek logo branded comdom ad 48 hours later!

posted on March 5th, 2012, 5:04 pm

Will you look at that skank, he insta-changed his profile!

Don't make any nonesence with the apologies. Unlike some other people, to whom you can't even wipe your ass in front of him without hurting his feelings, im a bit less sensitive. The irony is that these are the people that make me boil by the way.
Oi! Like something like it on facebook and you'll receive statrek logo branded comdom ad 48 hours later!

LOL, such a Good sport. ahahahahaha.

posted on March 5th, 2012, 5:04 pm

please stop this, if you guys wanna argue about something unrelated to fleetops can you at least do it over pm instead of taking a shit all over cyrax's thread?

i think there is still a lot to say about the op topic.

posted on March 5th, 2012, 9:58 pm

yes i do think there is still much to say ....... about the dominion race ? perhaps we should look at the parts of gameplay .
there is
build order
resource collection
ship options (what ships you will build)
the first expansion
the power of cloaking
the supply factor

just to name a few if we look at some of the aspects of gameplay in relation to the dominion race perhaps it will shed more light on why it is that the dominion is so "unforgiving" compared to  the other races. 

posted on March 5th, 2012, 10:15 pm

the dominion is unforgiving only if you don't get their economy right. romulans are unforgiving due to expensive ships, you must keep them all alive. dominion ships aren't like that, only super pros can avoid any losses, you have to accept losses as dominion. so it's not immediately obvious when you are screwing up. several times i've suddenly realised my supply situation is bleak, you have to pay attention, and most importantly, practise. once you have their economy down then you'll find that you can lose more ships without being dead.

i like the idea of a build time reducer on a selection of ships. wanna avoid ridiculous bug spam, but i'm drawn towards a research that decreases the build time of the bug, t15 and v13, the 3 most generalist/spammable ships. obviously the numbers have to be very carefully calculated so not to make spams become silly.

a similar thing could be done with costs i guess.

or maybe something that enhances the carrier. the b5 seems to be a staple ship, so maybe an upgrade for yards that allows them to synergise with b5s. perhaps yard workers' talent can be used to increase fighter spawn rate while the b5 is near the yard. or having a b5 repair at the yard will also give it a fighter spawn rate boost. or let yards absorb fighters from destroyed carriers. only when the b5 is near the yard for any of these.

posted on March 5th, 2012, 11:55 pm

just to name a few if we look at some of the aspects of gameplay in relation to the dominion race perhaps it will shed more light on why it is that the dominion is so "unforgiving" compared to  the other races. 

I think the unforgiving nature of Dominion gameplay displays the character of that faction just fine.
The founders usually order to kill those who fail to bring up a good plan. Dominion-players are lucky that they sit on chairs and not on transformed shapeshifters

[Beef]

posted on March 6th, 2012, 2:21 pm

Last edited by Beef on March 6th, 2012, 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yes i do think there is still much to say ....... about the dominion race ? perhaps we should look at the parts of gameplay .
there is
build order
resource collection
ship options (what ships you will build)
the first expansion
the power of cloaking
the supply factor

just to name a few if we look at some of the aspects of gameplay in relation to the dominion race perhaps it will shed more light on why it is that the dominion is so "unforgiving" compared to  the other races. 

There is not much to say about it... you have to follow a precise build order or you die... most dominion ships have range-specific bonuses in combination with weak defence that are so extreme that if you pick the wrong one you die. Their ships are so  supply expensive that if you are late with your supply production you die. You don't build any yards at your expansions... your constructors can't get away, your economy shuts down... you die again.

Pretty much anything that could be considered just a "whoops" in a more forgiving race will propably get you nuked... and your ass is gonna hurt!

Your only hope is that by some damn mirace your oponent decides to go after one of your allies and you will be able to send whatever you got to help him and get that breather you need to make amends... and even that there are no guarantees, because anyone who knows: Rule no.1: do NOT leave the dominion alone!

Its like the joke I made with my german buddy Arshea, it was one of his earliest times as a dominion player and he asked what did he do wrong and I told him he was propably 15 seconds late getting his prototype out.

posted on March 6th, 2012, 8:12 pm

Your only hope is that by some damn mirace your oponent decides to go after one of your allies

i think it would be best to keep this to 1v1 as team games have far far to many variables

dominion ships aren't like that, only super pros can avoid any losses, you have to accept losses as dominion.

i would disagree with this in a 1v1 your first 4-6 ships are key as size of there fleet plays a big role in there fleet ,because there ships put out more damage but have low health ......so for each ship lost is a loss of fire power .......i will admit that later mid-game ish they can afford the loss of ships.....its just the early game that they are so fragile.

posted on March 6th, 2012, 9:39 pm

well i talked with dom yester about this subject and her made a few points clear about the ballence construction of the dominion.

About Protoswitching, the dom are designed to be able to protoswitch 1-2 times without an eco-impact, he also brought out that if your not forced to switch than your opponet is doing somthing wrong. The switch is ballenced by the exponentionaly lower ship cost they enjoy.

and i forgot the rest opps

posted on March 7th, 2012, 9:08 am

I switch all the time. Instead of waiting for that slow piglet constructor to come all the way into position i just flip a miner and star constructing immediately. When I build mining stations i also immediately flip a constructor into the miner and start double mining straight away!

In my opinion, it is a terribly underused ability by the dominion player and indeed does merit serious attention!

posted on March 7th, 2012, 9:53 am

well there is no way to argue the loss of time by switching prototypes. and at the start of a game thats the big problem. its not the cost .....i dont know y dom would say that its not a cost problem ....as they have very cheap ships and you start out with more then enough supply ....so of course its not a cost problem lol its just the loss of time. and its also so black and white for the dominion vs fed its simple just build the s-2 ....it even counters there counter via production lol vs borg you have to build at least 1 b8 .....even if you rush for the large yard vs romulan ......well perhaps the romulan player will be nice and not just build the Leahval ....welll i dont know what it is but im sure there is some aspect about the dominion races that is not matched up for/with the other races well perhaps what the race redo's are going after ...only time will tell.

posted on March 7th, 2012, 11:57 am

We're not arguing about prototypes here, we are talking about switching your dominion miners to construction ships and vice versa!