dominion upgrades.

posted on February 29th, 2012, 8:39 pm

i think the system upgrades for the dominion should be removed and replaced with perhaps more production/ economic upgrades........what are your thoughts????

posted on March 1st, 2012, 12:19 am

If we were staring at that kind of boost I think the entire dominion fleet needs to be revamped. they are essentially a two trick pony in this patch.

I will withhold any major judgements till I see the new "coming soon" patch that will change everything.

That having been said. It makes more sense, dominion ships seem to be valued as kleenex with the exception of the prototypes.

[cyrax88]

posted on March 1st, 2012, 10:40 am

Last edited by cyrax88 on March 1st, 2012, 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

I was thinking rather then have shield and weapon upgrades at the Ketracel White Facility perhaps have ship cost reduction for the Construction Yard (replace weapons) and the Large Construction Yard (replace shields) keep the cost of the upgrades the same but have the build reduction for Construction Yard ships be something like .....-15 di and -10 tri the second upgrade would be -25 di and -15 tri . once both upgrades are researched you would save 40 di and 25 tri per ship at the Construction Yard. for example before research an s-2 cost is 327 di 110 tri after both upgrades the s-2 would cost  287Di and   85tri .....or after both upgrades a bug would cost 170 di and  42tri keep in mind that supply cost and build time are unaffected. So you would need to build 25 ships just to break even with the cost of both upgrades (Dilithium)........also on a side note this also kinda falls into the idea of the dominion being "able to build ships at an impressive rate" and it works with the idea that they are to be a spammer race , and it works with the prototype’s design "copy and paste" and you could always say that the vorta scientists have found ways to reduce production cost's .........also i dont think this would be OP as it still takes the time to build 25 ships just to break even and it encourages more yards to be built but the dominion player still has the supply problem to address, not to mention its a late game upgrade. its really not that bad ...its only every 7 s-2 built you would have saved enough Dilithium to pay for the 8th s-2 .    

posted on March 1st, 2012, 10:52 am

well im not sure about the cost reduction numbers i gave ....i kinda just did random ones that seemed like small amounts so they could be changed but it was just to give an idea.

posted on March 1st, 2012, 11:06 am

That having been said. It makes more sense, dominion ships seem to be valued as kleenex with the exception of the prototypes.

Why is that a bad thing?

posted on March 1st, 2012, 3:52 pm

I kinda like the idea overall, instead of having better shields / whatsoever you just spam more - makes kinda sense (in a dominion point of view), but just one question:
is the cost reduction for every ship, or just the specific vessel?

If it's for every vessel, then late tech units, or their transition, may become really unbalanced, if for one vessel type i kinda see the problem in what most people already complain about sticking to the prototype once built.

And don't forget mp games, giving ressources would increase the dominion spam to a really excessive amount.

posted on March 1st, 2012, 7:24 pm

No actually it wouldn't. You can stomp the living crap out of a dominion in the early game if he just makes they tinyest mistake... the shipyard one inch further from the moon, 30 seconds late to start producing ships after the prototype comes out, wrong ship choice... even the slightest thing done wrong in the early game can spell disaster for the dominion but if the dominoes fall right... well...

posted on March 1st, 2012, 7:28 pm

I kinda like the idea overall, instead of having better shields / whatsoever you just spam more - makes kinda sense (in a dominion point of view), but just one question:
is the cost reduction for every ship, or just the specific vessel?

the cost reduction would be for all ships in that yard.

And don't forget mp games, giving ressources would increase the dominion spam to a really excessive amount

even in PM games you can still feed a dominion player .....so? in the current patch whats to stop a dominion player from building from 5-6 yards and the others feed him ressources. also it would not be a very good plan to rush for the Ketracel White Facility , upgrade both cost reductions , build 25 ships after the upgrade just to break even ...?



and in current PM games in "late" game the dominion often has a more powerful economy ......but thats only because they can supply mine.

posted on March 2nd, 2012, 6:33 am

The supply mining is the single thing dominion does to break the game. Feds have the warp ins which is somewhat close in effect.

posted on March 2nd, 2012, 8:54 am

What I see here is some looser's prejutice. Dominion defence values suck, i mean REALLY suck. You try stacking equal rank ships and you will se how fast they drop. Bug vs. rhienn or brel - bug dies. Bomber vs. rhienn or monsoon - bomber dies. S-2 vs. intrepid or kvort - s-2 dies.

The only thing that keeps dominion on the ground (so to speak) is the fact that they don't have to worry about supplies, which means that production can keep going without frequent stops at the starbase.

posted on March 2nd, 2012, 9:39 am

lol those comparisons are silly.

bug vs rhienn/brel

bug: beam weapons, all rounder. small sized.
rhienn/brel: pulses, excel at killing small things.

bomber vs rhienn:
bomber: torps, bad at killing small things. small sized.
rhienn: small, and has pulses to kill small things.
monsoon: small and takes half damage from long range bombers. this is a hard counter.

s2 vs kvort or intrep, s2 counters long range and is weaker against short range, and kvort has pulses.

also 1 intrep costs more than 1 s2, so an intrep has the right to beat it 1 on 1.

making sham comparisons doesn't help any discussion.

also dominion do have to worry about supply, more so than other races, get supply mining correct and you can bankroll a team, get supply mining wrong and you can't build.

[cyrax88]

posted on March 2nd, 2012, 9:56 am

Last edited by cyrax88 on March 2nd, 2012, 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lol ya you took the words out of my mouth ....so to speak?

also dominion do have to worry about supply, more so than other races, get supply mining correct and you can bankroll a team, get supply mining wrong and you can't build.

.....sometimes i think people forget just how fast the dominion use up supply ...here are some examples ....two b-8's is about 100 supply ......for just 2 ships ....the b-5 prototype is over 100 supply even the "bug" cost 28 supply thats on par with Sovereign and Defiant , Qaw'Duj to name a few. i still dont think that cost reduction upgrades are OP as ship build time and supply are still unaffected .....in fact if any thing it would make things harder for the dominion "late game" as the other races ships become more powerful via weapon/ shield upgrades and even thats hard to argue as how many ship on the field must be taken into account.

posted on March 2nd, 2012, 11:43 am

The idea of economic upgrades does sound very Dominionish. Having this sort of thing would be welcomed by myself for the Dominion.

I wonder if a economic boosting ability for the Dominion is already planned. I wonder because on the Newspost about profiles(The Next Generation) there is the following quote.

Other profiles you can easily come up with are "Carrier" or "Scout", but all stations have also been tagged into different profiles, like "Yard" or "Platform". While this appears to be just a cosmetic feature, it helps to understand the way certain game mechanics work. An ability, for example, might have an extra effect on hostile Offensive Vessels or might speed up the construction of a Yard.

Having something alter the build time has been considered at least. A cost adjustment would be along the same economic lines.

posted on March 2nd, 2012, 4:03 pm

Well, I think the dominion is balanced in late game, maybe more powerful than any other fraction, but it is very hard to get to this point, cause in early game it is hard to stand against everything. Rommies have hard counters, klingons rip you apart with their K'Vort, Feds just roll over you and borg are also faster. Very hard to come out there. Best way is to go as fast as you can to large yard and pull out V13.

posted on March 2nd, 2012, 5:00 pm

Pondering it some. I 'd say the upgrades if they were going the economic route should decrease the supply cost in a given yard as well. But with the new profiles it's not like this is going to be a minor step for game play. I am assuming the new patch will breath new life into th C11 and other designs.