Borg Improvement Ideas(and others)

posted on June 4th, 2009, 8:03 pm

I like it. Having the borg build what amounts to an exit structure for a transwarp portal instead of an outpost feels more borg like.

Actually, this is exactly what I have for my Babylon 5 races. The starting unit is a Jump Gate, that operates like the A2-Stock 8472 Shipyard (wait, wormhole opens, ship appears). You have to actually BUILD the first starbase. It works really well in this case.

[Anonymous]

posted on June 4th, 2009, 8:16 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on June 4th, 2009, 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ok so if we think transwarp hubs are bad what about implamenting a transwarp modual for all ships that can equip, but at the cost of weapons and or armor, so say put one on a cube it would take away ability to add torps or beams so that would be that faster can travel the weaker it is, i still like gates but if so againts idea no changing your mind, and remember its still a game no matter how canon you make it theres just some elements that shouldnt follow canon needs for funnes, also what about a borg veriant of Warp-In   can be like transwarp-in and gives to scout cubes and dimons or sommit

im not saying the gate is bad. im saying unbridled use of the gate is not balanced. The method we're proposing for the Twarp hub retains the existing gameplay, while allowing for the ability as well.

thin of it, you will build your own network of gates across the map through whicht he borg can move and attack or defend.
it will be fun for sure, and canon to boot

posted on June 4th, 2009, 11:25 pm

I think that serpicus's idea is the best available. If you think about it, the borg use transwarp heavily and a "transwarp Outpost" makes mor sense than a conventional starbase. After all, why just build a starbase when a transwarp exit point can theoretically bring in anything you want? However i like the idea of being able to request emergency ships so what would be nice is if the early game abilities of borg ships dropped a little, the adaptor was removed from being able to be built through a construction node and then there was:
* Establish Threat: Aggression
    Sends a message to the Collective in the delta quadrant.
    A vessel is dispatched to this grid to aid in the defense of this outpost
as a "build item" for the "transwarp hub". It would "transwarp in" a random ship (could be a scoutcube, assimilator, or adaptor) which would have the following ability:
* Adapted Systems (passive)
    Takes 75% less damage from non-borg weapons
    Deals increased damage to destroyers and cruisers
Then use SokaOfBorg's inter-outpost transwarp idea. After all, the enemy has bigger problems then some incoming ships if your building an outpost on their doorstep.
There now everyones happy! the adaptor has a use, the outpost now has transwarp capbilities, and the borg arent overpowered.

posted on June 5th, 2009, 12:12 am

to be honest i thought that the old way of building borg ships (pre 3.06) was infact warping a borg ship to that location.

posted on June 5th, 2009, 12:15 am

Grr, the Adaptor does have a use... it's like saying the Serkas doesn't have a use: you use a ship for the situation that it is designed to fulfill.

posted on June 5th, 2009, 12:23 am

Since i just read all of this thread i think that the borg starbase should be a transwarp gate it sounds like a good idea. Also one other idea is that the borg dont have a starting station but they just warp in the first few units.

posted on June 5th, 2009, 2:03 am

Grr, the Adaptor does have a use... it's like saying the Serkas doesn't have a use: you use a ship for the situation that it is designed to fulfill.

Then what is it? i keep hearing people whine about you can only build assimilators till you are big enough to build cubes and that the scoutcubes, adaptors, and spheres are worthless!

posted on June 5th, 2009, 2:12 am

The reason that the Borg don´t warp in a hundred cubes into the Federation is simple, it would mean the end of star trek.  :sweatdrop:

When we remember Endgame, it was stated that there were 6 Transwarp Hubs in the Delta Quadrant from which the Borg could deploy their vessels to almost anywhere in the Galaxy almost instantly. (I know a lot of almost  :sweatdrop: ).

Of course various things in ST contradict each other, for example the "first" cube the Borg sent to assimilate the feds did not use transwarp, it travelled for quite some time, giving the crew of the enterprise enough time to stop it. So, if the Borg are not able to travel to Earth directly, how did the Sphere Voyager was "trapped" in get there anyway, and hell why didn´t they travel back in time in First Contact far away from Earth ? Well, because FC would have ended very soon, and with it the Federation....

Ah, now i got lost a bit, oh theres a topic too.  :blush:

So, finally some thoughts:

Repair vessels are irrelevant, the borg don´t need such a waste of time, they have their regeneration.

Transwarp: the idea of having a module for that is nice, but then also the current transwarp ability would have to go, redundancy...

The mods have already stated that they´re working on a new twist on assimilation, maybe that solves the problem of actually keeping assimilated ships

And: i like the Hub idea instead of a boring starbase that is anything but an assimilation matrix, it´s just visual so no fuss about balance...

posted on June 5th, 2009, 1:19 pm

I think the FO team will keep the Assimilation matrix, but we could also have a transwarp portal! We could have it require all adaptation modules (meaning you'd have to assimilate each race) before you can build it. Which of coure by the time you build it realtively the other races would have built up their tech trees. So it makes things a bit more balanced, having a portal in the starbase could mean that you'd just research the thing and send ships all over the place! I think that it is better towards my direction, having a portal integrated with the first structure you build is just too much of an advantage! Even for the 

posted on June 5th, 2009, 1:38 pm

Then what is it? i keep hearing people whine about you can only build assimilators till you are big enough to build cubes and that the scoutcubes, adaptors, and spheres are worthless!

@RCIX: that's because people don't think creatively. As logic goes for the other races, you don't just build Sovereigns if you want to win . Cubes aren't the end goal: they need to be supported otherwise you can just keep them out of commision and the Borgie will lose (think Cehlaers, Canaverals, Breen Battleships... etc). Spheres are definitely not worthless: usually its the first thing you build as Opti vs non-Borg; later on they are meatshields with their tremendous regeneration capabilities. Adaptors are beautiful for Opti vs Opti. Likewise Adaptors are quite powerful against most of the factions' battleships as they are solely torpedo armed and fire torpedoes fairly quickly. Scout Cubes I'm still experimenting with, but I believe they could be quite useful against the Klingons due to the interception module (probably combined with transwarp). Everyone is in so much of a rush to get the most powerful ship out that they don't realize that, for example, 3 Adaptors can take out a Sphere.

posted on June 5th, 2009, 2:28 pm

i agree with Dominus_Noctis  and 1337_64M3R about smaller ships being put aside for the cube, i personaly try to assmilate a species with 2 cubes, dimond and a scoutcube and/or assimilators/adaptors for helping clean up smaller ships while cubes deal with the big stuff like spacestations and battleships, also i like idea of having the transwarp gate but only after assimilating species so have to have least 2 adaption matrxies before its buildable that means one on one games cant use it and 2 on 2 would mean by time get it most likely the enemy is defeted leaving only 3-on battles where it would be usefull and again by time assimilated 2 species the other sides will have got there tech trees up to defend against it

[Anonymous]

posted on June 5th, 2009, 3:00 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on June 5th, 2009, 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

but again this is more theory, with creativity being rather subjective.
After all one man's creative art, is another man's toilet paper.

Adaptors are irrelevant. Certainly some would like to find a use for every unit, and for sure each does. But in the heat of battle some are relevant and effective classes, while others are redundant.
Take for example the Rommies - some would most certainly argue that a Shrike has a use. But others can win better w/o it, using only rhienns and generixes.
When playing opti v opti there is more to strat then adaptor v adaptor. U cant imagine how many times ppl have come at me with adaptors - opti-v opti and aan assim or sphere has nailed their arses lol.
3 adaptors will only take out a sphere only if the sphere is not properly configured. So again, been there done that.

Scubes are a pile of junk. 24 offense and 24 defense (rounding for the sake of convenience - varies between 21 def and 28 offense). At the current stats, the scubes are poor at defense and can easily be swarmed by klings.
Remember that by the time one has enough Scubes to get at the klings u have a whole flotilla of BOps and Kbeajq.
Atm no one is going to rely only on Bops for klings, as ktingas are now worth the while. So cubes are still fodder.
If u wait to get an research matrix up in that time u end up being open for a kling rush.

Yes-  under the old structure of costs Scubes etc were relevant for optimize and did have a decent role early game.
We can wait to 3.07 to see how things are changed. But assims as the backbone and central role-players for borg will not change, the ship's very nature is such.

So in te end it isnt a matter of creativity. It;s a matter of having an opponent that sleeps while u try different combinations.
If Borg gets an opponent who is more active and an adept player, Borg is toast if u end up trying adaptors and scubes w/o focusing on assims and spheres.

Kling defense may be weak, but the ktingas can stem the tide. also note that the destruction of the scubes will add to the exp of the Kling fleets. so the entire idea of combinations and creativity are dependent on subjective appreciation of a scenario, and nothing is in black and white.

However, as a standard game would go with evenly matched players, the borg have a good chance (better than with Scubes and adaptors) at winning in using assims and then spheres and then cubes with a diamond here and there as support.

At the end of the day one can be creative with Scubes and adaptors, but to win assims, and spheres with cubes are the way for anyone to go.

no ifs ands or buts about it.

posted on June 5th, 2009, 3:12 pm

I think the FO team will keep the Assimilation matrix, but we could also have a transwarp portal!

who knows

If they like our idea of the Twarp superstructure replacing a borg Starbase (cos in the end naming it assimilation matrix does not make it more Borg, when it acts and behaves and is even upgraded like any other standard Alpha quadrant starbase )

Besides all that we're asking for is a little more eye candy

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on June 5th, 2009, 3:17 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on June 5th, 2009, 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hardly conjecture my man: I tested every possible layout for Opti vs. Opti (obviously humans) so I think I know what I'm talking about . 4 Adaptors--> 1prime, 3 regen sphere --> adaptor is the only starting mechanism that works effectively (if you remember from 3.05a... yes a long time ago... opti Adaptors won against any conceivable combo against both directives). If you start with an Assim, you've already lost. If you start with a Sphere, you can stem the tide for a short while, but then you are screwed. As you said, it is theory: prove it wrong and it'll become hypothesis, but as it is now, it is theory (just like the theory of gravity, need I remind you)  :lol: . Again with Klingons; I've tested my fair share of strategies against human players and I stand by what I've said. BoP's are necessary btw, because of gravity mines  :thumbsup: . Test some new strategies and maybe you'll figure it out on your own . You won't wait for only K'beaqj, as they need to be supplemented. A combination of Sangs, K'beaqjs and B'rels does wonders. Likewise, pure Veqlarg spam for Taq'roja also is pretty decent against Opti (when combined with B'rels, once again).

At the end of the day one can be creative with Scubes and adaptors, but to win assims, and spheres with cubes are the way for anyone to go.
no ifs ands or buts about it

I thought

nothing is in black and white

. The rest of your post seems neither here nor there (It;s a matter of having an opponent that sleeps while u try different combinations. ... subjective appreciation of a scenario).

[Anonymous]

posted on June 5th, 2009, 3:21 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on June 5th, 2009, 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hardly conjecture my man: I tested every possible layout for Opti vs. Opti (obviously humans) so I think I know what I'm talking about . 4 Adaptors--> 1prime, 3 regen sphere --> adaptor is the only starting mechanism that works effectively.

As I said an improperly configured sphere


The rest seems to be housed in that concept.

Let's leave it at that. Over-emphasis on pedantics as above tends to detract from what was said. No wonder it comes across as neither here nor there when missing the larger picture of what is said in over-emphasis on pedantics.

Let's leave it at that

btw - my games too are (obviously humans). But there is a difference between lab style testing and real time gaming. That may be where the disparity in your conclusions seem to be stemming from.

In any case, we'll hope you include your points in the Borg guide soon. The theory is useful for us to finally refine in real time play. 


**Back on topic** I WANT THE TWARP HUB in place of the Assimilation matrix.. that's my improvement request for the Borg atm .