Borg Improvement Ideas(and others)

posted on June 4th, 2009, 5:19 pm

I view asking for a Transwarp Hub to be a long the same lines as asking for a real Starbase, or colonizable planets, or building an uber Unicomplex... features that are relevant in the shows and movies, but impractical inside a warzone.

actually, I would prefer it if the borg had a twarp hub instead of a starbase.

Think of it. The Starbase builds construction ships, mining, probes and detectors. We can retain the same costs as the costs of warping them in (meaning they have to be built in the delta quadrant), but in all the Twarp hub will act in place of the current Sbase.
IT will not have weapons. Instead as i mentioned in another thread it can be flanked by starting turrets.

The borg can build more than 1 twarp hub on the map just as they build starbases, and the only Twarping that takes place on teh map is movement between 2 twarp hubs on the same map.

It does not entail any Uebermacht or any other superpower for the borg and will still retain most of the basic principles of Twarp hubs.

I see the hub as certainly practical in a warzone (just as practical as an Sbase), and dont know what's so unrealistic or excessive in it 

posted on June 4th, 2009, 5:24 pm

...because why go through the trouble of building a huge costly edifice in a warzone, without first building supporting structures (the Assimilation Matrix, or the Outpost) to protect the budding project? Anyway, the argument I think is semi-pointless because as far as I know, a new gameplay feature for the Borg is already under consideration, and the Devs are probably happy with what they have now.

[Anonymous]

posted on June 4th, 2009, 5:29 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on June 4th, 2009, 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

...because why go through the trouble of building a huge costly edifice in a warzone, without first building supporting structures (the Assimilation Matrix, or the Outpost) to protect the budding project? Anyway, the argument I think is semi-pointless because as far as I know, a new gameplay feature for the Borg is already under consideration, and the Devs are probably happy with what they have now.

but we do build an Sbase then? Why should we be mired in old A1/A2 dogmas of Twarp-hub = 5000. Isn't a Starbase that is modularizable and configurable as has been proposed in other threads (which i believe u started) also a huge costly edifice in the middle of a war-zone?

and why would the borg ever build an outpost?
Since they come from the delta quadrant, any Sbase in the alpha quadrant is an outpost of sorts, and to boot they dont even care for it. They are known for Twarp and hubs.

No outpost.

Unless we replace the Sbase for borg with a unacomplex, the rest is a moot point of argumentation.

and as regards teh mods under development point, the Iconian thread too, as well as a plethora of others with which this forum already is replete are also pointless.

I see no coherent argument to actually equate the Borg Twarp hub instead of an Sbase with any comparison to fed Sbase or colonixable planets or the Unicomplex (especially if we rule out the unicomplex).

especially since the alternative ventured is more in line with borg tech, completely compatible as a replacement for the Sbase, still retaining borg style with the same gameplay we currently see with the Sbase, and at the same time adding a new interesting dynamic which is more in line with the race's canon appearance.
dont see cause for hesitation here. 

posted on June 4th, 2009, 5:36 pm

Sorry, I don't understand some of your post. I'm not sure when you mean Starbase (the mushroom shaped Federation structure) versus Assimilation Matrix, versus the Federation Outpost. As for the Unicomplex: that would be like taking all the production facilities of the Federation in one system and smashing them together with the Starbase--even more ridiculous than a request for a Transwarp HUB. Since when is a little FO battle a hub for anything anyway? I thought that was made clear by the fact that the structures we build are not "main bases" but tentative outposts for advancing ones territory.

[Anonymous]

posted on June 4th, 2009, 5:59 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on June 4th, 2009, 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gotcha.

To explain:

in my question "why do we build an Sbase?" I was referring to the current Starbase build for 2000 dil and 2000 tri.
It also referred to the idea of modularizing Sbases which also constitutes a large edifice in the middle of the war-zone.

Yeah - the borg designation for the Starbase may be "assimilation matrix", but it still looks and acts and is upgraded like a standard Starbase/Outpost.

I was suggesting that the assimilation matrix is redundantly similar to the fed/rom/kling starbase that is currently in-game.
Hence to retain the unique aspect of the borg which is a game of modularization as is, I was recommending that the borg start with a Twarp Hub instead of an assimilation matrix.
We retain the same time delay and resource requirements that we currently have.

But instead we are changing the graphics/appearance. The Twarp hub will open a gate and warp in the construction ship, the mining ship, the detector, and the probe.
we still see the bar of progress which will indicate how long it takes for the vessel to arrive.
Costs are the costs of building the vessel in the delta quadrant and more so energy consumption to warp it in, and support its arrival.

Gameplay and costs remains unaltered.

Instead of a starbase, we now have a hub.

One more point to make borg play interesting, is the hub can also act as a gateway to another hub on the same map.
Meaning i can move my borg from hub 1 at point A to hub 2 at point B. It does not act as a twarp to anywhere on the map, but will help move my ships between my existing bases on the map.
So my ship will enter the gate at hub a and exit the gate at hub B. the gates are built into the hub superstructure.
So still no random appearance of the borg in enemy space. just adds a little more cohesion on a large map if the player tries to expand.


hub defense will be as strong as the current Assimilation matrix. no upgrades. Hence the hub will be a little cheaper to build as it is more easily destroyed.

The borg defense turret can exist as is. But we can add another structure called the Modularizable weapons platform.
this structure will be along the lines of the rest of borg gameplay. It will consist of a base unit (like the fed platform), but instead of selecting torp, pulse etc, it will have modules like any borg chassis and can be upgraded at will by the player with customizable modules of torp, beam, regen, armor, etc.

this weapons platform will have a basic offense like most chassis, but can be upgraded and modularized.

The starting units for the borg will therefore be 1 Twarp hub flanked by 2 modularized weapons platforms (with basic config), just as any player starts with a starbase.

I dont see this as being anywhere near the Fed Mushroom base or colonizable planets, or even the Unimatrix complex, as it retains the current gameplay, while adding a taste of uniqueness and bringing the Borg's current modular gameplay to the fore.

hope it makes sense now

posted on June 4th, 2009, 6:09 pm

I like it. Having the borg build what amounts to an exit structure for a transwarp portal instead of an outpost feels more borg like.

The only problem I see with the modular weapons platform is that it sort of duplicates the federation platform structure. The current borg defensive structure is pretty worthless right now, making it build/module like a borg ship would be a cool change IMHO.

posted on June 4th, 2009, 6:38 pm

the borg have shown using transwarp coils on ships to travel from place to place without hubs, its only logical that transwarp apatures are everywhere in space, and logical that in a war the borg would use this to advantage by contruction of gates to keep them open, im not talking 100 gates like the hub thing from voyager im talking like gate in the 2 orginal games just maybe improved abit in look and stuff

posted on June 4th, 2009, 6:41 pm

also i would like to add also that its not a bad or stupid idea because otherwise would have never been put into the first and 2nd games so why does it become stupid idea now

also BRING BACK TACTORBEAMS!!

posted on June 4th, 2009, 6:45 pm

Yes, and all startrek vessels have Warp as well. So what's your point?

[Anonymous]

posted on June 4th, 2009, 6:50 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on June 4th, 2009, 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

@Soka

we do have the Twarp that can be researched from the research matrix. It should fit in well atm.

The dont see the borg warping in fleets from their twarps. just a ship or so.

there may be some specific resource and energy constraints. After all, havent u ever wondered why teh borg just dont warp in 15 cubes and assimilate the federation.

There must be something restricting such movement.

Hence the idea of limited Twarp as is currently implemented, as well as the hub as is suggested will be in line with realistic borg. It honestly will not be RTS to see borg ships zooming and out like buzzards.

As regards the tractor beams, Mal ventured a similar idea for having borg shield draining tractors.. so those ideas are out there too
we do have the special tractors on the chonaq class i think.. but i dont see anything more that tractors did in A1 and A2, so I dont find tractors being all that.

posted on June 4th, 2009, 6:52 pm

"Constructing" Ships in the Hub needs energy and ressources, so I suggest, that Transportation of vessels from one hub to another needs special energy or any ressource...

posted on June 4th, 2009, 6:56 pm

my point is to make a transwarp gate to gate network over one that can be opend anywhere, so need 2 hubs then link them thats not over powering, hell make them weak shielded so can be destoyed am just saying that its a feature that was good about orginal but not in mod, also for sake of things why not make it so only small ships can go through like scout cube size max, so cant exploit it with big cubes thats not much different to just using transwarp on the ship itself just be more perminant unless destoryed, also warp would work in game if game implamented 2 layer map so have subspace or sommit which ships move faster, but then again that would be hard to defend, but a 2 hubs connected would need you to build 2nd one which means a slow contructor to be moved which can be destoryed so wouldnt go towards getting behind peoples defences or anything so wouldnt be overpowerd in gameplay

posted on June 4th, 2009, 7:05 pm

If we then go by ur implementation, then what;s the point.

We already have smaller ships like the probe that can be equipped with the Twarp special ability.
what would a gate do for them? becomes redundant.

and as u correctly said, if i try to send big borg ships thru, then it is again unrealistic as in canon only 1 such big ship can move thru at any given time. and that too not in the heart of sector 001. they all appear at a particular distance from the enemy base and then enter fed space.

so there are issues there as to how we understand it, and are advocating change, as opposed to what it rweally is.

Hence all that would be possible is the Twarp hub movement as i suggested. nothing more.

posted on June 4th, 2009, 7:05 pm

"Constructing" Ships in the Hub needs energy and ressources, so I suggest, that Transportation of vessels from one hub to another needs special energy or any ressource...

of course. most certainly for balance.

posted on June 4th, 2009, 7:10 pm

ok so if we think transwarp hubs are bad what about implamenting a transwarp modual for all ships that can equip, but at the cost of weapons and or armor, so say put one on a cube it would take away ability to add torps or beams so that would be that faster can travel the weaker it is, i still like gates but if so againts idea no changing your mind, and remember its still a game no matter how canon you make it theres just some elements that shouldnt follow canon needs for funnes, also what about a borg veriant of Warp-In  can be like transwarp-in and gives to scout cubes and dimons or sommit