No Sus'a For Yous'a!

posted on June 9th, 2010, 4:13 am

now people are going to nerf my fav klingon ship...

posted on June 9th, 2010, 4:18 am

Sorry Dircome.

I'm not looking to nerf the ship, just make the special it has not so crazy powerful.

posted on June 9th, 2010, 4:24 am

I am gonna be sure not to tell mort about this until after tomorrow's game 

posted on June 9th, 2010, 5:05 am

ZE NUMBA'S ZEY DO NOT LIE!!!!!! 

  Anyone who disagrees is welcome to play me while I spam Susa .

  Anyone?

posted on June 9th, 2010, 5:13 am

ZE NUMBA'S ZEY DO NOT LIE!!!!!!   :o

   Anyone who disagrees is welcome to play me while I spam Susa .

  Anyone?

I am willing to crush you bogz, like when i tried to crush you as rinser while you were mayson in 3.0.7

posted on June 9th, 2010, 5:16 am

Maybe once we have integrated Tungle support.  :)  I'm still opposed to installing networking software beyond what I have.  Just a thing about me there.

Otherwise, I'd love to even see just what monsoon spam vs susa spam does.  Though the Monsoon in my experience does fine and dandy against SuSa, the SuSa can hurt stations.  The Monsoon SUCKS against stations.

And no, I can't say exactly how many.  I can only go with what I see in game, and there's no way in hell I'm gonna try to micro a swarm of Monsoons, particularly when they're facing a fleet.  Rather just let them fire at will, and rely on their speed and rather absurd durability (for a dessie, they're built to LAST).

posted on June 9th, 2010, 9:23 am

Silent, you will still need tunngle installed even when it is integrated.


Mal, I do look at the numbers, and the LDA assualt is rediculous. I can't believe it does MORE damage to destroyers with that turned on than its own base damage.

[Optec]

posted on June 9th, 2010, 9:30 am

Last edited by Optec on June 9th, 2010, 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

hm, what makes you believe that dps is based on 2 seconds? if a vessel fires 2 torpedoes per second with 5 damage each, it deals 10 damage per second. Not that much compared to a sang for example, or similar torpedo ships like the Dominion Bomber.

Nevertheless, the susa damage while Last Ditch Assault is active got alread decreased slightly

posted on June 9th, 2010, 10:51 am

mal i wish to challenge your math

each torp launcher does 5.603 damage per hit and fires 1 torp per second (shot delay 1 as you say) then total damage per second of a susa with 100% hit rate is 5.603 x 2 (because of 2 torp launchers) = 11.206 that is the dps, i dont know why you have then divided by 0.5 (which is effectively multiplying by 2) as optec says if the susa has a shot delay of 1 second then its dps is simply how much damage it hands out per shot.

posted on June 9th, 2010, 10:53 am

yep, we could still reduce the "real dps" a bit cause of the hit-chance malus of torpedoes, but i ignored that for now

posted on June 9th, 2010, 12:51 pm

This sort of answers both Optec's and Myle's question

hm, what makes you believe that dps is based on 2 seconds?

That's the only way I've found to make the damage calculations match (or be close to) the offensive value stated on the ship.  I use that since I don't know how Optec does actually does his thing and it's worked every vessel.  As myles points out, 5.603x2=11.206 (which you'll notice Myles is in my equation).  With a shot delay of 1 second, this would be 11.206 dps, which is no where near the stated value.  But 22.412 is just 1 point off from the stated value.  I assume the extra damage comes from how torpedo damage is calculated, I'm not sure.

In any event, that part of the equation doesn't matter, as that part is done globally for all ships whenever I do a damage equation for something (as I've explained in posts before).  I could simply drop that ratio, and since I would do the same for all vessels, nothing would change.  It's actually easier for me to not have to use that ratio to make the numbers close to the stated offensive value (even though it works for every ship I've come across), as it's one less calc I have to do.

I'm glad it's getting a reduction, Optec.  It's quite a beast.

posted on June 9th, 2010, 12:59 pm

So, this is about OP Susa class vessels and how they are being spammed? I found Lvl 4 or higher Dominion T-15s to be a pretty good counter. I couldn't believe how easily it could take down Excel IIs on its own after rank 5. I think of these as pretty good Anti-spam ships. Especially with the Borg bonus. That thing really boosts its teeth.

What I also like is the S-7 Class, it owns almost any Klingon ship below the might Vor'cha. Some slower than others, but overall it really pays for itself when it comes to defense and occasionally mid-game offense (its prototype is the first thing I build after a couple of T-15s from the Lrg Yard).

If the Breen Avatar is up your ally, microing a bunch of Breen Cruisers and Escort Cruisers should also do the job. And for bigger bunches, I also find the Breen Battleship useful at times.

[Myles]

posted on June 9th, 2010, 1:51 pm

Last edited by Myles on June 9th, 2010, 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

s-7 defender is the slowest thing that can move. ds9 moved faster when kira whipped o'brien into giving her something with engines. plus of course it will eat up stuff below vorcha, its a late game ship lol. in essence its a giant turret with engines. its spw furthers that idea, disabling engines and pushing a ship back, out of range of the defender.

EDIT: @mal are u equating offense value with damage per second?

posted on June 9th, 2010, 5:57 pm

Do you know how many susa's i could have out by the time you managed to build an S-7????

posted on June 9th, 2010, 7:56 pm

mal are u equating offense value with damage per second?

Basically.  A while back I mentioned how essentially the offensive values seem to double the dps.  I first figured this out when I looked at the 3.0.7 breen cruiser.  I'm too lazy to link the post, I think it was before you joined up on the forums, so it was quite a while ago.

Anyway, to save confusion, from now on I'll use real dps, and use the values I normally use as an approximate offensive value, since it's usually within + or - 1 point from what the stated values in the game are.  That will definitely save me time and effort.

Anyway, the big thing to take away from this is that Last ditch assault literally doubles the dps of the ship, and I'm glad that Optec was already on top of it, like he always seems to be.