Is This Normal?

posted on January 5th, 2009, 3:33 pm

Does anyone here actually know what random means?

Your point being? If it really chooses its system randomly and its a good chance me or Crazy Moose would have seen it. Consider if we have a group of 8 Vor'Cha all fireing 2 polaron torps at different targets and there are 5 systems they can hit.
If we do this a lot of times, isnt there a big chance we would have observed something?
Maybe I just missed it or something, but I really cant recall once I saw ships shields fail due to polaron torp hit. (eventhough the tooltip says it randomly chooses the system  )

posted on January 5th, 2009, 7:35 pm

Completely agree. Consider also that both descent and the dreadnought cost more credits and for the dominion dreadnought u actually need some other races tech.
Maybe it could be a little more costly or something, cause a tavara spam is vicious.

if the tavara is too powerful - how would you rate teh Dom battlecruiser.
Takeing into account the spam factor of the feds and klings the roms need a balancer.
the tavara is perfect.

posted on January 5th, 2009, 10:50 pm

Quote from: -=B!G=-The Black Baron on December 22, 2008, 08:42:59 AM
Completely agree. Consider also that both descent and the dreadnought cost more credits and for the dominion dreadnought u actually need some other races tech.
Maybe it could be a little more costly or something, cause a tavara spam is vicious.

if the tavara is too powerful - how would you rate teh Dom battlecruiser.
Takeing into account the spam factor of the feds and klings the roms need a balancer.
the tavara is perfect.

Dominion Battlecruiser? U mean the B-5, T-15 or maybe V-13? Let me anwser for all of your questions
B-5 is a carrier with the bombers and quite weak weapons. Add to that it is limited to 7 ships so I dunno how that could be the problem.
T-15 heavy cruiser is the one with the single disruptor with long range and it also has short range (very weak) torpedo. Its very strong vs destroyers and maybe decent against cruisers but against bigger ships it totally fails. Its only meaningful weapon is the disruptor which deals 80% damage to cruisers and only 60% damage to battleships, so if you dont know how to counter the ship thats your problem. Though it shouldnt be too difficult. Add to that the credit cost of the ship, which is quite high and I dont really see an imbalance.
And lastly the V-13 battleship. Its stats are quite low when compared to other battleships, only when one chooses puretech and gets a boost of +6 to all attributes does it become formidable. Though its no where near unbeatable and all the other battleships are a match to it. Add to that the high credit cost and it becomes really hard to spam it, thus balancing itself out.
So here, please anwser if you ment any other ship or if you think I am wrong with something

I have also wrote about thinking the feds are a bit unbalanced as they are quite strong (or I ment to write about it ) and their ships really do build very fast. Id rather they become a bit stronger but have longer build times.
The Klingons really are not unbalanced and you know that. They may be able to build ships a bit faster but they arent really all that strong and if you drag them to late game they are at an disadvantage.

Now about the Tavara. The Romulans already have the D'deridex, Norexan, Eresis and Cahleal as main battleships. All of those ships serve a particular need and all are very strong when compared to any races' main battleship. The Tavara, with the Mijural avatar, gets a credit cost reduction of -2, meaning that instead of 3 you can build 5. That is 5 ships that have defense of ~170 and offense of ~140. For this ship you dont have to do anything special, you just build up your tech tree (which all the other races need to do as well, except the Dominion). Add to that, the Tavara is not even all that expensive and comes armed with a cloaking device and an awesome second special weapon (which you do have to research) and it recrews like a station.
Are you kidding me? The Descent and the Dreadnought (regardless of the ally/enemy) are jokes to the tavara and you can have less of them :-S You also have to work quite hard to get the Dreadnought, if you dont play with any allies.
Also do not forget that while Rom ships are a bit more costly, they are also a bit more powerful than their counterparts. The Rhienn and Shrike absolutely own early game and the Generix refits, Griffins and Levheals make it quite easy for the Roms to go comfortably into the late game ships. Where, as mentioned b4, they have more battleships awailable than any other race in the game, each of which serve a very distinct purpose in the game. The last thing the Roms need is a all-round over-the-top battleship.
With that said, I do not expect them to remove the ship from the game only to limit it in some way. Is the Borg and the Dominion have to bust their arses to get to their "super" units, so should the Romulans.

posted on January 7th, 2009, 9:32 am

yep, the Tavara will be delayed and gain some new requirements. the current thoughts in the dev team tend to make a Warbird Yard Upgrade that has to be performed fist in order to get the Tavara.

Another changes has already been made: The Tavara will now cost 8 credits (2 with Mijural)

posted on January 7th, 2009, 9:50 am

The Klingons really are not unbalanced and you know that. They may be able to build ships a bit faster but they arent really all that strong and if you drag them to late game they are at an disadvantage.

while i tend to agree with the most of your post - you gotta be kiddin about this part.
okay, their ships arent that "big" or "strong" in late game, but in the time when the other factions are able to build their flagships, the klingons can spam the whole map with their smaller ships. and a full fleet of k'vort is even able to kill a cube if its not protected by a bunch of assimilators and spheres to protect its ass.

posted on January 7th, 2009, 11:30 am

Look, if your playing vs Klingons you know that fact that their small ships are their real strenght. So you counter that point, same thing if your playing vs the Borg. You wont build pulse ships then, now will you?

Each race has a counter ship for every type of ship. If your Rom playing vs Klingons, just build Shrike/Rhienn and then Generix frigate and see how long they continue with the bop spam. With the Feds you have monsoons and then defiants, with Dominion Breen cruiser, T-15 and lots of bugs ( ) and with borg you have scout cubes and assimilators.

Its a piece of cake really, just think about it


And thanx Optec, just make that shippy a little more difficult to get

posted on January 7th, 2009, 2:18 pm

yep, the Tavara was ment to be something cool and fearsom, not the bread and butter vessel of the Romulan fleet

posted on January 7th, 2009, 3:38 pm

yep, the Tavara will be delayed and gain some new requirements. the current thoughts in the dev team tend to make a Warbird Yard Upgrade that has to be performed fist in order to get the Tavara.

Another changes has already been made: The Tavara will now cost 8 credits (2 with Mijural)

Honestly I think my idea a few pages back was pretty good and felt Romulan to me at least (the special nebula mining one).
Though I appreciate you making the effort
BTW, if Mijural Tavara costs only 2 credits that would inbalance it further

yep, the Tavara was ment to be something cool and fearsom, not the bread and butter vessel of the Romulan fleet

Precisely my thoughts

posted on January 7th, 2009, 3:55 pm

If we are interested in balancing the Tavara, then we most certainly need to curb the feds SPam factor.
Feds keep pumping sovs, galaxies, intrepids, and defiants. Resource costs need to be adjusted for sovs and galaxies at least.
Otherwise we end up with weak roms. Slow Doms. Slow and costly borg. But feds and Klings that can spam mid-game.

I dont mind reworking the balancing issue. But simply tweaking a side or 2 without a more wholistic view of the other races as well - especially the feds and klings - will leave the game balance out of whack.
take for example the fact that klings and feds will like to rush an attack with BOPs or intrepids and akiras, we need to then at least have Rom/Dom/Borg stations that can pack a certain defensive punch and not be overrun by an early rush. Cause frankly the feds and klings due to resource requirements and the nature of the smaller ships can easily overrun the other races before they even get a chance to collect enough resources to build their own ships.

Think chintoka turrets.

posted on January 7th, 2009, 8:47 pm

The Dominion could be a little faster, I agree. Mostly because of the canon factor.
Also as I said b4 I think feds should get a little longer build times and costs and also the strenght ofc, but Klingons are quite OK imo. As I said b4, sure at the beginning they are a pain in the arse but soon enough you can have them on the defensive with the right ship selection
Your point about the Borg is absolutely not true, their ships are built faster than anyone elses. While they might be costly, they are also powerful and besides the cube no other vessle should get stronger IMO

posted on January 7th, 2009, 10:42 pm

The Dominion could be a little faster, I agree. Mostly because of the canon factor.
Also as I said b4 I think feds should get a little longer build times and costs and also the strenght ofc, but Klingons are quite OK imo. As I said b4, sure at the beginning they are a pain in the arse but soon enough you can have them on the defensive with the right ship selection
Your point about the Borg is absolutely not true, their ships are built faster than anyone elses. While they might be costly, they are also powerful and besides the cube no other vessle should get stronger IMO

i diagree, the klingons are too one dimensional. its oh, im playing against the Klingons, i gotta build to fight against small units. and then the Klingons either get pwned by trying to raid with small units that the enemy is rdy for or has to try to play with their large slow units that lack cloaking that cant raid while their entire race is built on raiding. the klingon's need one or two late game ships built of raiding, and not have their late game ships only useful for defense.

posted on January 8th, 2009, 1:35 am

Agreed that the klingons need a late game ship. I posted in another thread that the klingons do not have a worthwhile use for their credits. Every other race has a mobile ship of some sort that uses credits (or in the case of the borg, kickass upgrades that effect almost all their units).

I suggested implementing the D'tai as a klingon ship that uses credits. They were only seen once during the show, and are essentially K'vort style Birds of Prey, that are as large as a galaxy or a D'derix. They also have cloak.

Could be a fun late game raiding ship for the klingons.

posted on January 8th, 2009, 6:46 am

A cool ship but I don't see how it is more powerful than the Negh'var or that much more so than the Vorcha? Perhaps the D'tai could cost 1 credit each and have some sort of good special ability?

posted on January 8th, 2009, 7:05 am

A cool ship but I don't see how it is more powerful than the Negh'var or that much more so than the Vorcha? Perhaps the D'tai could cost 1 credit each and have some sort of good special ability?

the Negh'var is a really defensive ship for the Klingons, it moves really slow and has a high defense rating compared to the attack rating, its not really useful for Klingons offensively. infact, none of the Klingon battleships are very good at raiding. so the D-tai wouldnt need to be super powerful, it would just need to be raid centric, and cloakable with a decent attack rating, not necessarily stronger then the Negh'var, just noticably stronger then the Klingon's current main ships for raiding, the Luspet and the Vorcha.

[Rhaz]

posted on January 8th, 2009, 7:16 am

Last edited by Rhaz on January 8th, 2009, 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Vorcha is quite powerful though in this game, but it is also costly. Perhaps make the D'tai an avatar super heavy cruiser / light battleship for the BOP boosting avatar? That'd be fucking awesome. Sorry if i'm on the wrong track here XD.

EDIT:


.
I think we have a problem with the history of this ship .

'During the Dominion war all twelve D'tai class vessels saw extensive service. Although they gave a good account of themselves, all were lost...'