Hyper arty

posted on April 9th, 2011, 11:27 am

nobody here is arguing about reaching the two from the start of the game, since its rare you see someone go for bortas as their first ship.

if a dominion player starts a game with hsa in mind, they will likely go for b5 (as many many players do nowadays), leaving them only needing ketracel. while klingons keeping bortas in mind can only seriously go for battle yard stuff like vorchas. and even then buying vorchas requires armoury, and going straight to bortas doesnt require armoury, so they have the extra costs of armoury to deal with.

its not about how high you have to climb, its about how much further you have to climb. and its usually a lot further for klingons.

posted on April 9th, 2011, 1:28 pm

Ok, I'll play it straight for you all then, since I'm a nice guy

- For Martok -

60 Imperial 1008 dil
90 Imperial Research 600 dil
50 Battleyard 784 dil
30 Field 350 dil
= 230 seconds for your first BortaS to start and 2742 dil. As a reminder, BortaS takes 83 seconds to build.

- For Puretech -

70 Tech 600 dil
60 Large 1440 dil
90 Ket 600 dil
40 Small 960 dil
= 260 seconds for your first Hyperspace to start and 3600 dil. As a reminder, Hyperspace takes 203 seconds to build.

Those are just purely added up numbers - now remember guys, really CAREFULLY pick your conclusions from this 

Congrats on posting the most useless info iv seen yet on this board.

No one can tech straight to bortas and have any chance of winning a game so this info is useless, dom can build ships at the same time as having the aim of getting a HSA or 2 which are quite cheap and dom rarely have to worry about supply because they have it coming in anyway.

In order to actually use bortas effectively you would have to research some expensive stuff and that takes a long time. So how long it takes to actually build the bortas is pointless 3 of them are useless without their research and they cant be used very well without their specials researched.

posted on April 9th, 2011, 2:45 pm

Dom really is a nasty guy...comes around the corner, throws numbers in your face and runs away and hides...while you try to get a clear sight through all the messy numbers.

posted on April 9th, 2011, 2:55 pm

oh noe, not the face, teh numbers, they hurt (!)

what is it, lets all attack dom day?

well if we're doing that, i dont like your avatar pic dom, it seems like your giving me the bird  >:(

a purple unicorn would be much nicer

everyone needs a chill pill, or a chill suppository

posted on April 9th, 2011, 3:14 pm

What everybody needs to do is test thoroughly before they jump to conclusions . And no, I'm afraid saying that "everybody does it in a particular manner" isn't testing. 

It doesn't really matter if people feel that something cannot work, or say that something takes longer, or more resources, etc - remember when *everybody* was saying that the K't'inga Rush wasn't possible? I think that holds special relevance for you in particular Myles .

Unfortunately or not, it's simply not feasible to show every single online player all the things that are feasible and why they are possible every single patch. This is especially in light of that 95% of the online players are within the last 1-4 patches and cannot remember things like a Negh'var rush, or the incessant bickering over BortaS overpoweredness, or C-11's being used very successfully in combat.

Paradigms shift online with each batch of players and if people are content to say things are a certain way then that is how it will be . I expect people to either internally or externally scoff at remarks like this, and although it bothers me, it can't be helped.

posted on April 9th, 2011, 4:28 pm

It doesn't really matter if people feel that something cannot work, or say that something takes longer, or more resources, etc

Instead you propose to test it with a very very special setup. Then you come and say "See here it CAN work"...just as useless as your number plays...there is much more to consider during the game which you cant express through pure numbers. But that is irrelevant for you...as proved in the post you made about reaching Bortas and Artillery...

posted on April 9th, 2011, 4:37 pm

I've been playing around with BortaS quite a bit and you certainly can tech straight to them without too much pain even in 1v1.  It's not optimal but is quite possible.

posted on April 9th, 2011, 4:47 pm

If you tech straight to Bortas, how do you defend yourself in a 1v1?

posted on April 9th, 2011, 4:59 pm

KBQ .  They are the perfect early game workhorse.

  He said it wasn't optimal, just possible.

posted on April 9th, 2011, 5:15 pm

By the time your third K'beajQ is out of that first yard (no hold ups in production mind you, since you don't drain funds fast enough), you can start production of your first Sang', and your first BortaS is ~40 seconds away from completion.

[Anonymous]

posted on April 9th, 2011, 5:16 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on April 9th, 2011, 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

well thats not straight to them, if u mix them with other ships. teching straight to bortas would mean bortas would be your first ship, ie having a straight line to bortas that doesnt bend to go to other combat ships.

getting to bortas fast depends on how good a player you are at defending yourself against the odds. such as having a handful of kbqs and being outnumbered. a skilled player would need fewer kbqs and could get the bortas faster than a weaker player who would need to put more of their money into getting a passable defence force. its very fluid when you consider getting to something fast.

ninjad by dom

posted on April 9th, 2011, 5:24 pm

There are no halts in production, hence it is straight to them . You are teching as fast as you go, and that is as fast as you can go.

posted on April 9th, 2011, 5:28 pm

There are no halts in production, hence it is straight to them . You are teching as fast as you go, and that is as fast as you can go.

ahh ok, i thought the description was of not going straight in order to have enough kbqs to offer serious resistance.

posted on April 9th, 2011, 6:56 pm

I think what Clint meant by "not optimal" is that it just leaves you pretty vulnerable to mistakes you make with your relatively small fleet.  Once your first Bortas is ou you've got some interesting options, but they are certainly not conventional

posted on April 9th, 2011, 7:22 pm

There is no way in hell ANYONE could tech to bortas in a 1v1 without losing bad, even if you managed to start constructing a bortas you would have lost your expansion by that time and now lack resources to continue the fight considering the choices you have made to get a bortas. Gameover. A bortas without its research is useless so gg.

This is about the OP and bugged issues with the hyper arty not the bortas for which i dont see many because they are so far away from each other in the tech tree realistically that there isnt a problem.
Going straight for the bortas leaves you vulnerable due to lack of ships, going for HSA does not.