How Dare You Say That Ship is Useless!

posted on April 1st, 2009, 10:04 pm

Of course lets not loose sight at another point. The episodes you are talking about were clearly biased towards the good guys lol. At the beginning the Dom ships were the the shit and everybody was running scared (including Klingons in their attack at cardassia ) But at the end of the show the Dom ships were poping all over the place and being essentially one-shoted by everything.
And I dont buy the whole Feds, Klings, Roms adapted to the Dominion (really, the Dominion can not adapt at all?!?) either.

We could argue about these things forever. I think the bug ship should be crappier than the bop but should be more spammable. I think everyone should agree with that statement And lets just leave it at that (we might as well argue that the Galaxy is the strongest ship in the whole of universe then )

posted on April 2nd, 2009, 12:13 am

Which is why it was the Klingons who figured out how to stop the Breen energy-dissipator weapons while the Romulans and Feds were sputtering and flailing in horror.

That was a chance modification that protected the ship, a tribute more to Klingon luck luck than intelligence.

As for adapting, Dukat warned the Dominion not to underestimate the Federation skill with Technology. Adapting is easier for them than any other empire (except the Borg, obviously).

posted on April 2nd, 2009, 3:01 am

hmm, well personally, id like to see a bit of a change for intrepid, but then again, idk it is a lower level ship, but whenever i use it, i eye its special weapon alot, it seems like its strong, but i find, my intrepids get destroyed very quickly, i can get the special weapon off, and destroy a station a few ships(with the rest of the fleet helping around) but the intrepid seems to die rather quickly, and the feds being a defensive race, maybye it should get a boost, like a pasive alblative armor ability, but maybye im using it wrong, so my question, should i not use them at all in late game? should they be used strictly for middle and early game?

akira seem to hold up okay, but not the offense  i would think the so called "99 torpedo ship" would seem to have, personally i would think the miranda 2 could fill in that defensive role, as that ship can take a severe beating.........

and id like to see some upgrading or refit for fed, and maybye an introduction of a nebula mk2, so we can make a large use of its specialized pod, lots of threads on pod, but i think we need a mk2 nebula for that, who knows, maybye even a repair pod

as for borg, assimilaters dont seem to be to good, they can only torpedo and thats not to helpful, likewise the ship below assimilator, and above scout cube, seems to be very bad, and the diamond, wtf is its purpose? is it just like a borg version os support? cus i find it has pretty much no power, and i would choose a sphere over it anyday

as far as dominion, there torpedo ship, wtf is up with that? whenever ive used it, its like trying to put out a fire with gas, it does nothing, and the hyperspace artillery, should do way more damage, and dominion overall needs a redo,

as for kligon, they seem to be genuinly good to use, a tad slow, but they seem to be very powerful in defense and offense

roms, i think they might even be to powerful, and with all the ship redoing, and new special abilities i here about the team working on, they seem like they could be way overpowerful, my only problem with them, is personally, i think one or two more tavars should be added, but maybye cost more, cus i dont want overpower, and that looks like where rom is headed, tho, i think another refit type would be nice for generix, possibly somthing like, a special romulan inteligence refit? (only a few)

overall, yeah...................


lol

posted on April 2nd, 2009, 3:57 am

i am not crazy about the intrepids special, it doesnt seem to fit the ship even though it is cannon. well thats just my opinion anyway....

posted on April 2nd, 2009, 7:53 pm

There are loads of technologies mentioned in Voager, which are unrealistic and totally overpowerded. IMO voyager could have stayed in the Delta quadrant forever. ;-)

Indeed there are many ships, that don't play an end game role, which is a pity. But there are still some exceptions. E.g. the shrike fully concentrates on spying in the end game, I suggested an Upgrade for the BoP, which makes it fire it's graviton markers while cloaked or the Canaceral is useful in endgame too. Any suggestions to elongate a vessels time of servive is highly appreciated, but I doubt it is possible and sensible for all smaller vessels.

The most efficient way of making the smaller vessels stand a chance would probably be a completly new AI command: "Retreat when..." with several options: "you've been hit", "your shields are on 33%", "shields are down", "do or die".

@ ray320
Please make some suggestions for the properties of a generix romulan inteligence refit.

@ The Black Baron
Once there was the suggestion that they should always be produced in packs of 3. I think that would be a nice idea, especially if the pach costs the same as 2 single bugs yet. They should have even weaker stats IMO

posted on April 2nd, 2009, 11:22 pm

Yeah, I do like the idea of some Dominion ships just being pure spam and cannon fodder. Pump out 3 really weak Bugs at a time and send em in as cover sounds really nice actually 

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 6:42 am

Heh I remember that idea, I suggested it
As I said, I really dont care if bugs are made stronger or they are more spammable, either of the 2 will work. But they cannot stay as they are, because an early-game the dominion is just not on par. Optec already anwsered, so I guess they choose the ,make early dom units stronger, rout
Personally, I would have preferred the spam rout as well though But Ill take it

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 7:18 am

okay, well for the inteligence generix, as requested, and not knowing stats

i would say, have a cloak that cant be detected, cept you only have like 100 seconds, (till swithc to standard cloak) and a 200 seconds cooldown time

um, maybye where its cloak is modified so that instead of being invisible it shows up as a enemy ship, fooling your foe, and leaving you able to keep your sheilds up and explore base (time limit)

maybye a sabtour agent transport, so then you can acces your agent, and select a system to be taken out, or to try to take out the whole thing(50-50 chance)

hmm, theres others i could think off, but those are a few, it could also have like a science refit, or experimental refit

such as very fast speed, or like 30 attack, or timphasic(or whatever theyre called) torpedos, but only a few built

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 7:38 am

this may have been suggested before what if you had a ship that could create fake ships (using its cloaking generator maybe???) these ships would take targeting priority over the real ships. this could be done in game by having a ships that could create several ships around it that were invincible and could not attack. whatever vessel uses this would fly in to the area that you were getting read to attack and generate the vessels and then instead of firing on your ships it fires on the fake ones.

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 11:28 am

I don't think they should be invincible, but an ability like holographic ships they used in VOY would be cool, but I think it would be fair they have reduced health or die in one hit, it could still be balanced well though.

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 11:33 am

I ship with a Holographic Masking System has already been discussed, it's the USS Incursion.

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 3:24 pm

Hmm... A holographic technologie was very nice, but the only way to incorporate it in the realistic way is that of the incusion. A ship, that has an holographic layer abuve the hull could indeed look like another ship. It's probably not realistic to change the holographic motive at once, because you have to excahnge the whole holographic layer on the ships surface. A big advantage of holograpy (in contrast to cloak) is that it doesn't use energy to work, because the image can be created by the environmental light (see Denisjuk-Holography).

Projecting holographs on enemy's ships, like the shadow from stock armada did, is absolutly unrealistic, because you cmight not be able to dock to an enemy's ship and apply the layer there.

There is a countermeasure against holography: Active scanning with a different frequency than light, e.g. use radar.

[Tyler]

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 3:33 pm

Last edited by Tyler on April 3rd, 2009, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Another unrealistic thing about the Shadow's version is weapons fire. Weapons coming from an area of one of your enemies ships that isn't a weapon array should clue you in on the fact that it isn't one of theirs. The Incursion version at least disabled weapons to prevent something like that while disguised.

[Anonymous]

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 3:47 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on April 3rd, 2009, 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Projecting holographs on enemy's ships, like the shadow from stock armada did, is absolutly unrealistic, because you cmight not be able to dock to an enemy's ship and apply the layer there.

May not be as a projector. but as a sensor illusion that scrambles tactical is realistic.
It was implemented on Voyager, TOS, and TNG to varying degrees.

Tricking enemy sensors into picking up ghost signatures or signatures of ships that werent there (like DS9's bashir solar flare incident with fake dom ship signatures)

So if the Tal shiar were to have this experimental tech, which scrambled tactical's target locks into picking up signatures of enemy ships on friendly ships and misfiring the target lock, it would certainly be possible.

And - if there ever were a romulan 3rd avatar as I had suggested in my thread for a Sela-Reman avatar, this would be a perfect experimental weapon as it was in A1.

posted on April 3rd, 2009, 3:50 pm

False sensor reading could explain why no ships would pickup on the fact that the weapons were firing from the wrong place (and aren't even Romulan).