Federaion late-game Strenght

posted on February 18th, 2009, 6:26 pm

yep, i think basic technology wont change in just 20 years. more modern designs like the Sovereign or the Exelsior-II carry quantum torpedoes but hey, photons are 200 years old now and still in service, why change that!

we also thought that the "Dominion War Crisis" might brought some newer weapons into serial production, like Quantum Pulse or Particle Weapons, but they are rare and only used on some single designs, not a general replacement for "bread and butter" weapons. Photons and older vessels might probably be also cheaper to produce then Quantums.

posted on February 18th, 2009, 9:06 pm

okay, seen this way all of you are perfectly right 

posted on February 18th, 2009, 10:24 pm

To take something from one of the novels that could possibly assuage people's fear of late-game Fed weaknesses, here's an idea.

In 'Children of Hamlin' Wesley jury-rigged the main phaser-coils to emit a beam that was between 8-16x as powerful as a normal phaser shot.  Downside was that it blew out the entire phaser assembly, and multiple conduits throughout the ship.

So, one of those phaser bursts coming off a Galaxy or Sovereign would probably kill or severely maim an enemy ship.  But you need to repair the firing vessel before it can fire again.

posted on February 18th, 2009, 11:04 pm

To take something from one of the novels that could possibly assuage people's fear of late-game Fed weaknesses, here's an idea.

In 'Children of Hamlin' Wesley jury-rigged the main phaser-coils to emit a beam that was between 8-16x as powerful as a normal phaser shot.  Downside was that it blew out the entire phaser assembly, and multiple conduits throughout the ship.

So, one of those phaser bursts coming off a Galaxy or Sovereign would probably kill or severely maim an enemy ship.  But you need to repair the firing vessel before it can fire again.

Now, what's to stop any other race from doing this? To my knowledge nearly every single race in Fleet Operations (The Klingons, the Romulans and the Breen) use Disruptor banks/weapons. Now to my knowledge despite sounding a lot meaner (please do not confuse the ST definition with the SW definition) the disruptor is all in all similar to a phaser bank. So what would stop these races from doing that? The Polaron beam shouldn't be much different either, and what about the vast array of Borg Weaponry? The only solution to improving federation late game strength is to teach players how to play and if absolutely required lift the limit of 1 on the Federation Starfleet Command building, ie lose a fleet and warp in your 20 credits worth instantly (6 Ships + 1 Descent/Avalon).

The only problem I am currently having with the federation is my Excelsior class ships are very fast (as fast as a sabre?) I know they have lower stats but I do not think they should be so quick. In fact most of mine end up destroyed because they run into the enemy with my Sabre and Monsoon units. xD

posted on February 18th, 2009, 11:17 pm

To take something from one of the novels that could possibly assuage people's fear of late-game Fed weaknesses, here's an idea.

In 'Children of Hamlin' Wesley jury-rigged the main phaser-coils to emit a beam that was between 8-16x as powerful as a normal phaser shot.  Downside was that it blew out the entire phaser assembly, and multiple conduits throughout the ship.

So, one of those phaser bursts coming off a Galaxy or Sovereign would probably kill or severely maim an enemy ship.  But you need to repair the firing vessel before it can fire again.

I don´t know that novel, but i guess it was an act of desperation or something like that, certainly nothing for standard use. They could as well drop their warp core on an enemy ship or load a shuttle with explosives and ram enemy ships 

[ARES IV]

posted on February 19th, 2009, 7:08 pm

Last edited by ARES IV on February 19th, 2009, 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It is maybe correct, that Federation is balanced when they spam ships like hell.

However, even if this is correct, it does not change the fact, that for example the Sovereign is just to weak.

Galaxy is arround the same power level as a Warbird, a Sovereign can mop the floor with both of them.

The Sovereign is meant to be mean. It is the largest, most advanced ship in the fleet. It is the god damm flagship. It should be able to hold its own against any ship (except Borg, Tavara) in a 1v1.

[Meng]

posted on February 19th, 2009, 7:20 pm

Last edited by Meng on February 19th, 2009, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In what way is the sovereign too weak? IMO it makes sense that its somewhere around a negh'var or dom battleship, which is the case in FO...  Maybe it seems weak because the federation has so many other useful ships.

Actually, if you directly check things in the odfs, you'll see that the sovereign is even stronger than a dominion battleship!:
sovereign weapons damage added up is around 42, that of dom battleship
(full tech) is around 49, which is veeery close...
Plus, the sovereign can burst fire its torpedos and even their standart delay is 0.60 faster than that of the dom battleships torps... and the sovereigns shields are a lot stronger...

[Actium]

posted on February 19th, 2009, 9:37 pm

Last edited by Actium on February 19th, 2009, 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

well its probaly just because everyone uses excelsiorII ships which are quite the killer against battleships (take some of em and u can instakill a Tavara, no joke). So in this way the Sovreign just isnt as usefull compared to its price.So in the end noone uses it exept as meatshield.
Its maybe not that bad ... but i wont use it since i get more boom from the excelsiorII vessels

posted on February 19th, 2009, 9:42 pm

Sadly, that advantage in stats does not show ingame:

This Dominion fleet killed:

arround 35 Sovereigns
3 Avalons
2 Phalanx
4 Defiant



And before you now cry about the borg.... they happened to be there only in the end where the battle was already lost for me.

Do you know what the Dominion lost in that battle?

Arround 15 ships, however most of them small and weak... and most important: CHEAP.

I have 4 moons and pump Sovs like hell. Still, I have major trouble defeating any medium comp.

Small klingon skirmish groups (3 Vorcha and some smaller ships) will decimate a fleet of 16 Sovereigns down to 12 before finally dieing.

You can win with Federation in Late game... you just need 3 times the money of your opponent.  >:(

posted on February 19th, 2009, 9:52 pm

*cough* mix and micro units *cough*

posted on February 19th, 2009, 11:04 pm

I'm not exactly a very good player/strategist, but appearantly your fleet is lacking support ships, while your opponent seems to have a lot of them. This might be an explanation for your losses...
seen from a special weapons point of view your fleet can disable their engines 35 times in a row, while teir fleet can do all kinds off stuff to you that you cant do anything against...
I dont play feds very oftan but shouldnt you at least have some remoores or maybe canaverals?

posted on February 20th, 2009, 2:25 am

And many more Defiants to knock out their weapons... 

posted on February 20th, 2009, 5:11 am

take the Torpedo Avatar and use excelsiorII in combination with defiants and Remores

posted on February 20th, 2009, 7:21 am

I see about 15 battleships and 10 heavy cruisers in your picture...how did you even expect that fleet to last? And imo the stats are fine.

posted on February 20th, 2009, 7:26 am

 Ares, you don't live up to your name. Listen the advices posted a little up, mix your fleet with support ships, firepower is not everything. Use remore class with ECM that makes your ships harder to hit and canaveral class with sensor blackout. Also defiants with weapon killing torps. And don't forget to research shields and weapons improvement. From your screenshot I see you had more than 20k trilitium. Man, federation research costs mostly trilitium. No wonder you lost.