Descent class
You feel like a battlecruiser is too weak or a race too strong? Go ahead and discuss it here :)
posted on March 24th, 2009, 10:50 pm
i disagree i think the feds are very strong once they get excelsior mk2s.
posted on March 24th, 2009, 11:08 pm
Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on March 25th, 2009, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry, but this nonsense has to stop. >:(
I'm just going to say this once, and then if you want to prove me wrong Ray, you'll have to join me online (I've asked you four times now.... though you still haven't given me an answer of any kind). I’ll play the “pitifully weak” Federation versus whatever you want to throw at me.
The Borg are HORRIBLE early game (if by early game we mean destroyers). Yes, horrible. Not only do their ships have absolutely no range, but they are slow, and they also cost a fortune: if you want to pump them out fast, you can't go for the research center. Sabers and Rhienns have no trouble dispatching Scout Cubes without even getting damaged, and if you wait a little while Veqlarg's can do the same. I haven't played Dominion long enough to learn any viable strategies, so I will not comment on them. Harassment is difficult to pull off with Borg, because once you are engaged in battle with them, it is nearly impossible to pull out if things are getting rough (as their ships are slow and big). Likewise, since all their ships cost a lot, it means that you are always afraid to lose ships ... which is the whole deal with harassment (you lose less than they do and you send weak, easily missed ships).
You mentioned Assimilators: For optimization, assimilators are available only after 20 priority... which means you have to build 4000 dilithium worth of Scout Cubes (10)... or go for the upgrade, at the cost of much less defense. For assimilation, assimilators are available at priority level 5 (if I remember correctly), but everything costs a lot more (and you get less supplies)... which means even less ships early game. Borg are powerful mid to late game--that is true--but you have to get there first.
A K'vort is NOT the earliest game unit: it already requires a tech center (and by that time... see below). However, by the time you will get K'vorts, Federation will not only have a numerical Saber advantage, but because of the slow turn radius of the K'vort and their slower speed... they will be decimated by Sabers (unless used very carefully with cloaking). Faced by Sabers, a Klingon player is much better served by building a few BoP's and harassing... and then building more powerful units (depends on the avatar-though anybody feel free to add their strategy). The Federation is also able to take out large amounts of destroyers quickly (Norway class). And yes, I do play Federation (not every time, but I'm learning, and being taught constantly whether I win or lose).
I actually haven't seen almost anybody play Dominion online, but that could just be an artifact of when I am online playing--and who is online (talk to Baron if you want good Dominion info). Still, I believe that of all the races, the Dominion needs the most work, given the supplies constraint (and the slightly strange way their fleets work). Like I said above though, I really need to come across someone who plays Dominion online well in order to learn.
So please back up your points, as I have only seen you online twice... and even though you complained about the Federation being weak, you would only actually play as them. (Have you played the other factions, or have you just been beaten by them?)
I'm just going to say this once, and then if you want to prove me wrong Ray, you'll have to join me online (I've asked you four times now.... though you still haven't given me an answer of any kind). I’ll play the “pitifully weak” Federation versus whatever you want to throw at me.
The Borg are HORRIBLE early game (if by early game we mean destroyers). Yes, horrible. Not only do their ships have absolutely no range, but they are slow, and they also cost a fortune: if you want to pump them out fast, you can't go for the research center. Sabers and Rhienns have no trouble dispatching Scout Cubes without even getting damaged, and if you wait a little while Veqlarg's can do the same. I haven't played Dominion long enough to learn any viable strategies, so I will not comment on them. Harassment is difficult to pull off with Borg, because once you are engaged in battle with them, it is nearly impossible to pull out if things are getting rough (as their ships are slow and big). Likewise, since all their ships cost a lot, it means that you are always afraid to lose ships ... which is the whole deal with harassment (you lose less than they do and you send weak, easily missed ships).
You mentioned Assimilators: For optimization, assimilators are available only after 20 priority... which means you have to build 4000 dilithium worth of Scout Cubes (10)... or go for the upgrade, at the cost of much less defense. For assimilation, assimilators are available at priority level 5 (if I remember correctly), but everything costs a lot more (and you get less supplies)... which means even less ships early game. Borg are powerful mid to late game--that is true--but you have to get there first.
A K'vort is NOT the earliest game unit: it already requires a tech center (and by that time... see below). However, by the time you will get K'vorts, Federation will not only have a numerical Saber advantage, but because of the slow turn radius of the K'vort and their slower speed... they will be decimated by Sabers (unless used very carefully with cloaking). Faced by Sabers, a Klingon player is much better served by building a few BoP's and harassing... and then building more powerful units (depends on the avatar-though anybody feel free to add their strategy). The Federation is also able to take out large amounts of destroyers quickly (Norway class). And yes, I do play Federation (not every time, but I'm learning, and being taught constantly whether I win or lose).
I actually haven't seen almost anybody play Dominion online, but that could just be an artifact of when I am online playing--and who is online (talk to Baron if you want good Dominion info). Still, I believe that of all the races, the Dominion needs the most work, given the supplies constraint (and the slightly strange way their fleets work). Like I said above though, I really need to come across someone who plays Dominion online well in order to learn.
So please back up your points, as I have only seen you online twice... and even though you complained about the Federation being weak, you would only actually play as them. (Have you played the other factions, or have you just been beaten by them?)
posted on March 25th, 2009, 4:41 am
The Sabre is a beast. I've eaten Scout Cubes alive with them no problem, and even just let the computer handle it when I have a decent numerical advantage over the Scout Cubes, which is rarely a problem unless I'm econ-booming to try to get the big dogs out early (sacrificing early power to do so).
The next step up, while the Borg are still using Scout Cubes, is the Monsoon. Fragile, yes. But it hits hard, hits fast, and moves fast, while still being rather cheap which makes them deadly combatants.
As the Federation, I don't fear Borg unless they've been allowed to build up while I've been getting hammered. If I haven't been getting hammered, my fleets should viably eat most of theirs alive, and then go on to reduce their base to dust. Hell, if you want to see a cheese kill, focus everything in a 1-on-1 vs AI borg on spamming Monsoon and every time you get about 5 of them, hitting the Borg with them, while you build up a full 16 Monsoon fleet. It's cheap, stupid, terrible tactics...and it eats the Borg alive unless they have a good player at the helm willing to buy and use the Unicomplex upgrade, or lots of assimilator spam to steal your Monsoons.
I wish that strategy failed more often, honestly. The Feds are monsters largely because their early ships are good, and pave the way for their big ships to steamroll. The only things that scares me more than multiple cubes inbound are a large number of Serkas, or a large number of Excelsior-II. By large I mean 5 or more at once, btw.
The next step up, while the Borg are still using Scout Cubes, is the Monsoon. Fragile, yes. But it hits hard, hits fast, and moves fast, while still being rather cheap which makes them deadly combatants.
As the Federation, I don't fear Borg unless they've been allowed to build up while I've been getting hammered. If I haven't been getting hammered, my fleets should viably eat most of theirs alive, and then go on to reduce their base to dust. Hell, if you want to see a cheese kill, focus everything in a 1-on-1 vs AI borg on spamming Monsoon and every time you get about 5 of them, hitting the Borg with them, while you build up a full 16 Monsoon fleet. It's cheap, stupid, terrible tactics...and it eats the Borg alive unless they have a good player at the helm willing to buy and use the Unicomplex upgrade, or lots of assimilator spam to steal your Monsoons.
I wish that strategy failed more often, honestly. The Feds are monsters largely because their early ships are good, and pave the way for their big ships to steamroll. The only things that scares me more than multiple cubes inbound are a large number of Serkas, or a large number of Excelsior-II. By large I mean 5 or more at once, btw.
posted on March 25th, 2009, 4:59 am
If you have a good size fleet of Excelsior mk2 at officer rank there are few ships that can stop them. If your opponent has a stronger fleet of ships attacking them you can simply order them to run and they will bombard the ships that are following them. It will outrun most ships and the ones it cant are usually destroyed fairly quickly. Also it has a rear firing torp launcher, that means you that it is as strong if it is attacking or fleeing. It is helpful to have 2 different fleets. One containing faster ships like the saber, Monsoon, Canaveral, Excelsior mk 2, and other ships that are fairly fast. And another containing slower stronger ships like the descent, galaxy, and sov. then you harass with the first fleet and then retreat behind the stronger ships.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests