Borg needs some Improvements

posted on July 27th, 2010, 3:20 am

Your module choice wasn't the best as I managed to destroy your cube with 6 sabers, and 2 intrepids.

  Erm ...  I find that hard to believe.  I don't think that 6 Sabers and 2 Intrepids can do enough damage to really even stop a basic Cubes natural regeneration ....

posted on July 27th, 2010, 3:29 am

dunno, but would Tricobalt torpedoes do it?  Unless he cheated

posted on July 27th, 2010, 4:31 am

The resources thing...um...the borg need less attention paid to their miners than anybody else.  The things can take a beating, deploy their own mining station, and can be upgraded to provide a constant flow of resources.

And if you were going straight for the cube...while I applaud your canon attack method, I have to say that it's a terrible mistake.  The highest thing you should ever try to make your 'first' ship is a sphere.  Even then, I'd say don't do that, even if Optimize.  Get a couple scout cubes, or Dodecs, or Assimilators first.

Lategame, if you don't want a Tac-Cube, I suggest this module layout.  Beam1/Torp3/Regen1/Tac1.  That'll give you a high-offense cube that still looks like a Best of Both Worlds cube, is still tough, and will shoot a second beam off to encourage those lighter ships to retreat.

If you're having a hard time defending multiple mining outposts, research Perfect Logistics and upgrade 4 miners.  If playing as Optimize, you may want to get and turn on the recycling center as well, to give you a signifigant steady flow of resources between all of that.

Should you have a great deal of excess resources and limited Collective Connections, never underestimate the disturbing nature of building another Assimilation Matrix when another race would build a turret.  It costs no supplies, and if you upgrade it's offense becomes a vicious 'turret'.  This can help you hold an additional mining area in a long game when your limited fleet is otherwise occupied.

posted on July 27th, 2010, 6:51 am

  Erm ...  I find that hard to believe.  I don't think that 6 Sabers and 2 Intrepids can do enough damage to really even stop a basic Cubes natural regeneration ....

I had improved weapons and maybe 3 sabers!? Oh and I he went inside a green nebula so I had extra regen

posted on July 27th, 2010, 8:53 am

The borg are perfectly outbalanced. They do what no other ship can do: Kill a ship without letting it retreat. One beam on one torp is enough to kill a destroyer or cruiser. 7 attacks, 7 dead ships.

The problem: You have to stay in game in order to rech that level. The borg are weak in early and even in mid game, but wipe the floor in late game.

The only thing they lack is a good mixed tech thing.

I had an idea for this (and there are many out there)

A second mixed tech approach for borg AND for the future even the Noxter:

After the borg assimilate a constructor, they may build a tech-center in order to adapt. This tech-center must research alien technology for every race (we have some, so the time to do it is reduced, but bust be done for every race)

After that, you can send in your assimilated ships and "refit" them. So you change the weapon outload, the def-values/off values/system values by installing borg modules into the ship. The number depends on the ship size. Scouts cannot be upgraded, destroyer can mount one slot, cruiser two, battleships three and dreadnoughts four.

I know, that it is a bunch of work with odf-files and so on, but I'm positive, that the already existing borg-handling can be simply adapted in order to fit this system.

The modules you may install are a little "different" from the borg modules, you have.
- Adaption module (This module will change the weapon systems to adapted ones, increasing the damage to any non-borg ships) This module also slightly increases the defense against the race this ship comes from, for example the federation
- Conversion module (This module will exchange all non-borg technology with borg-technology where it would fit at best. The overall ship performance is increased. You may also gain access to some borg technology, like high energy slicer/nanites/etc depending on the vessel size)
- Extra passive module (This module will add an extra passive ability you can choose out of a queue, that got NO disadvantage, like the normal ones have)

All those modules will cost something and you can be sure, that those mighty ships will cost a hell of ressources, but they may also stay en par with the other borg ships (So that we have an outbalanced system - No borg player would set in monsoons if he already got cubes)

posted on July 27th, 2010, 9:21 am

The resources thing...um...the borg need less attention paid to their miners than anybody else.  The things can take a beating, deploy their own mining station, and can be upgraded to provide a constant flow of resources.

I proposed mining modules once. What about mining module for the dode? Mining module + vinculum = stationary ressource collector = permanent flow?

posted on July 27th, 2010, 9:23 am

I proposed mining modules once. What about mining module for the dode? Mining module + vinculum = stationary ressource collector = permanent flow?

*vote*

posted on July 27th, 2010, 9:23 am

I had improved weapons and maybe 3 sabers!? Oh and I he went inside a green nebula so I had extra regen

I'm sure there were also some Dominion ships attacking it at some point lol....

posted on July 27th, 2010, 10:34 am

The borg are perfectly outbalanced. They do what no other ship can do: Kill a ship without letting it retreat. One beam on one torp is enough to kill a destroyer or cruiser. 7 attacks, 7 dead ships.

I disagree. only the cube can kill ships before they can run.

a normal sphere (with 3 regen) isnt too fast and ships can retreat if carefully microd

only a sphere with holding module can guarantee the enemy wont run.

The problem: You have to stay in game in order to rech that level. The borg are weak in early and even in mid game, but wipe the floor in late game.

i disagree, borg early game is fine, 3 scubes 2 probes for opti is a strong start, its not op, but its not weak either. if u cant survive early game playing as borg then you need to practice as borg.

The only thing they lack is a good mixed tech thing.

their mixed tech may be rather plain and dull but its certainly good, adaptors take a lot less damage, they are very useful.

posted on July 27th, 2010, 12:07 pm

their mixed tech may be rather plain and dull but its certainly good, adaptors take a lot less damage, they are very useful.

Does that mean that they take less damage per shot, or it takes fewer shots to destroy it.

Can there be at least a reduction in the amount of resources that can be held by a resource collector?

posted on July 27th, 2010, 2:39 pm

If I remember correctly, I was involved in some of those games. (as your opponent, but I'm sure that I was the dominion ally that you was talking about in the first page of the topic)

Sorry man, but all I can say: You must work on your build orders.
You and your ally just completely ignored early game, and rushed directly for sphere, (thats not the borg way:) ,
and I also saw you (or you ally, sorry for not remembering correctly) building incubation center before conduction matrix, and building transmission matrix before making any ships. (early tech could work on huge maps, if you opponent is teching too, but its sure not a good bet on star traffic)

I suggest you to read the guide for borg build orders, or see some of the replays on youtube. (i think this is the most efficient way to learn things)

If you still not feeling conviced, I offer you to play some 1v1 (without fog of war) so you could see how efficient can be borg in the early game. (and of course I will galdly help to learn those things)

posted on July 27th, 2010, 3:11 pm

Does that mean that they take less damage per shot, or it takes fewer shots to destroy it.

Can there be at least a reduction in the amount of resources that can be held by a resource collector?

adaptors with adaption modules take loads less damage from that race.

why do u want resource assimilators to carry less per load?

i assume u mean u want the miners to carry less per load, but bring in the same amount of res per minute, so u will need more miners.

posted on July 27th, 2010, 4:22 pm

I want the resource collectors to carry less payload because then they can mine the resource, dart to the processing matrix, then dart back to the resource.  The time it takes to make one full trip will be cut almost in half.

One on one it is.

posted on July 27th, 2010, 4:29 pm

I want the resource collectors to carry less payload because then they can mine the resource, dart to the processing matrix, then dart back to the resource.  The time it takes to make one full trip will be cut almost in half.

One on one it is.

i dont understand what u mean

why do u think lower capacity will make the borg stronger?

posted on July 27th, 2010, 4:33 pm

Lowering their capacity actually makes them less efficient .

  Having such a large payload means that they spend LESS time traveling between moon/Node than the other races.  You're asking for them to be weakened .


  Yeah, this sounds to me like people are just ignoring Borg early game because they are unwilling to deal with having to make multiple uplinks and manage their resources properly.  I suggest (along with the others) that you take a look at the guide .