Shrike and assorted Romulan topics

posted on June 9th, 2010, 10:11 am

//topics merged

posted on June 9th, 2010, 10:40 am

drr i had a game like that yesterday. enemy went kbqs i went shrikes. thing is i built my second staryard at my expansion, so numbers were equal, if i had built my staryard at my main then i would have had more shrikes than he had kbq. at the beginning nobody could get kills obviously cos both of us could cloak and run. but after a few shrikes i had enough to disable weapons often, which stopped cloak running a lot of the time. now the speed increase is strong, because even in a 1v1 the kbq couldnt get back to base in time to repair, my shrikes got it before half way to base. any shrikes that take damage i cloak and run, as early klingons cant cloak detect shrikes. the early cloak detect is brels, but shrikes massacre brels and wouldnt need to cloak. by the time he got to kvorts i had enough shrikes and gens to win.

posted on June 9th, 2010, 2:09 pm

Arash and me had one game each against Stardust as Klingon. Map was Early Bird.

We tried to take down the KBQs with Shrikes...but did not suceed with two strategies. One main point imo is the HWP at Klingon Dil moons. They make the moon save against any early game raid leaving only the base moons. Needless to say that the shrikes got owned in the first minutes because of their weak shields (I did not loose any shrike in the beginning). But once the KBQ raided my mining without any chance to defend my ship production got stuck and I got outnumbered by KBQ and Kvorts.

So what I really miss is a proove of concept (replay) for this strat. And I dont mean owning newbies but good players!

posted on June 9th, 2010, 2:12 pm

how many yards were u pumping shrikes out of?

shrike spam works best with 2 yards of course.

if u put both at your main you will be able to get out there fast and kill their con ship on the way to built HWP at expansion.

if u built the second yard immediately at your expansion then u secure that expansion rather well.

the trick is to make sure u get the expansion con ship. if u let them build HWP you will be restricted to continuously destroying main mining.

posted on June 9th, 2010, 2:18 pm

I'm curious, what is a good counter from the Dominion against shrike spams?

posted on June 9th, 2010, 2:19 pm

You cannot even produce a HWP if you pump out K'beajQ like you mention. Otherwise you'll have the even worse conditions than what you mentioned are necessary for a Shrike spam to win. K'beajQ will number about 4, Shrike will number about 8 at the same time . HWP + Field Yard that early will cost you big time (1300+ dil that early means 3 less K'beajQ). The only way to get even production of K'beajQ with Shrikes is to spam them both out of, respectively, 3 (then 2) yards, and 2 yards.

Before you start talking about replays and skilled players in such a disdainful fashion, it would be wise to re-evaluate your own skill level.

@ Gamer, B-8 War Frigate works the best - low crew, 20% damage reduction, no weapons disabled.

posted on June 9th, 2010, 2:24 pm

hey dom does is bomb hit cloaked vessels? if so the B-8 strat will be even stronger against shrikes. shrikes i presume are faster than B-8 so can run, is bomb would stop that.

posted on June 9th, 2010, 2:57 pm

Before you start talking about replays and skilled players in such a disdainful fashion, it would be wise to re-evaluate your own skill level.

Works the other way round Dom...maybe you played against medium players which is an explanation why your strat worked.

The HWP did not come that early but early enough. It is easily said that someone should prevent a HWP from building...but If the builder is guarded by 4-5 KBQ and you go in with maybe 5-6 Shrikes its really difficult not to say impossible to take out the HWP. Against 4-5 KBQ a shrike will only stay 1-2 waves of shooting...then it has to retreat. The KBQ in the meantime will last longer, can retreat faster and will probably get another 1 or 2 KBQs as support once they are build.

Dom, if you can manage to get online this evening (GMT+1) we might find a good Klingon opponent for you where you can proove your math thing. I will like to observe and learn from what you do.

posted on June 9th, 2010, 3:21 pm

5-6 shrikes wont need long to dismantle a con ship lol. we established earlier that shrikes are faster than kbqs. so the kbq cant retreat faster. plus if u spam shrikes fast u can have more than 5-6 by the time the enemy has 4-5 kbqs. also you should be attacking earlier, after 1-2 shrikes. if u are sitting in your base waiting u are making mistakes. the first two shrikes should go find the con ship that is heading to the expansion moons, or if they havent sent it yet should attack di miners. destroy one, if they dont attack your own mining, retreat after 1 kill. if they are attacking your mining then quickly dispatch all their miners and u will both be equal lol.

posted on June 9th, 2010, 3:26 pm

oh i see i see... *takes notes*

well I wish someone told me about this Before i started the game >_>;;

posted on June 9th, 2010, 3:36 pm

if playing as kling vs shrike spam i would put out 1 kbq from field yard while research is building, and 2 from kahless station, then spam kvorts, possibly from a field extension if u can. the kvorts will serve u later into the game as well. while shrike spam goes out of date fast when destroyers go out of fashion.

posted on June 10th, 2010, 12:25 am

while shrike spam goes out of date fast when destroyers go out of fashion.

Word.  The Shrikes really get relegated to being harassment after the destroyer phase is over.  The 14 defense hurts bad given that it's offense is only that of a Taq B'rel and yet it's costs are way more.

posted on June 10th, 2010, 12:36 am

Works the other way round Dom...maybe you played against medium players which is an explanation why your strat worked.

The HWP did not come that early but early enough. It is easily said that someone should prevent a HWP from building...but If the builder is guarded by 4-5 KBQ and you go in with maybe 5-6 Shrikes its really difficult not to say impossible to take out the HWP. Against 4-5 KBQ a shrike will only stay 1-2 waves of shooting...then it has to retreat. The KBQ in the meantime will last longer, can retreat faster and will probably get another 1 or 2 KBQs as support once they are build.

Dom, if you can manage to get online this evening (GMT+1) we might find a good Klingon opponent for you where you can proove your math thing. I will like to observe and learn from what you do.

I of course don't think you want to learn, otherwise you would have heeded mine and other people's advice long before and you wouldn't keep on bringing up this entirely irrelevant and frivolous "math thing". Who knows, maybe you'll soon be arguing that miss chances aren't 60% because you've tested it out one time, and the torpedo didn't hit . I'm not interested in mind games, and it is fine by me if you want to believe that K'beajQ eat everything  :detective:

posted on June 10th, 2010, 8:14 am

if you want to believe that K'beajQ eat everything

That's not what I say...they are too strong in hull in early game and this has been prooved in many games. And as a direct result you will likely get out massed because the number of KBQ keeps increasing while your ships might decrease.

posted on June 10th, 2010, 8:25 am

I will agree ONLY that the hull strength of a KBQ early game gives them an ENORMOUS advantage in saving their numbers as the beginning skirmishes rarely have enough firepower in them to finish a shield-less KBQ in the 4 seconds it takes to cloak them.  Torpedo heavy races like the Feds ESPECIALLY suffer from this.

Not entirely sure how to fix said problem.  Increasing their build time is not really a very good option, nor is increasing their cost imo.  I think that making OTHER vessels *cough* B'REL*coughcough* might HELP avoid a straight KBQ spam.