Shrike and assorted Romulan topics

posted on June 7th, 2010, 9:37 pm

I do have to say, 7 K'beajQ, and 6 Shrike is not 'en masse'  

posted on June 8th, 2010, 5:48 am

7 K'beajQ, and 6 Shrike is not 'en masse'

The point is...7KBQ are almost as powerful as 11 Shrikes...the KBQ is so strong and fast that you can barely get them down. They should really get some hull buff for the initial ship build.

posted on June 8th, 2010, 12:47 pm

The point is...7KBQ are almost as powerful as 11 Shrikes...the KBQ is so strong and fast that you can barely get them down. They should really get some hull buff for the initial ship build.

They are stronger so you can cloak and run if overpowered. Very few rommie ships are that strong. The Shrike's boost is the weapon killer. And if the shrikes happen to get the first three shots, they usually would be getting the kill. Since a disable is often accumulated within the first 3-5 shots.

posted on June 8th, 2010, 2:14 pm

actually if microd right a shrike can escape under cloak, cloak and run at around 50% shields and u should make it. if they have spw then retreat after first shot, when they have more ships then 50% shields will be after first shot too lol

posted on June 8th, 2010, 3:13 pm

The point is...7KBQ are almost as powerful as 11 Shrikes...the KBQ is so strong and fast that you can barely get them down. They should really get some hull buff for the initial ship build.

In the first volley, two K'beajQ are without weapons, so better bump that 7 up to a 9 or 10. Not only that, but K'beajQ are slower, and will not be able to cloak-retreat. Shrikes most definitely counter K'beajQ and you can get out a 1:1 ratio of the two even.  Even if you still want to go by pure offensive+defensive ratios between the two, 11 Shrikes has a severe advantage on 7 K'beajQ. If a K'beajQ gets hit in a weapons system while disabled, then it will lose that system as well, not to mention it will lose systems when cloaking as well. Still not sure what that has to do with the matches, as my original post was directed at a comment within the second video .

posted on June 8th, 2010, 3:15 pm

Hey Dominus? Are Brels  decent against shrikes?

posted on June 8th, 2010, 3:53 pm

B'rels are no counter to Shrikes as they take 50% increased damage from them and get their weapons disabled to boot.  Remember to check out the Unit Analyses when in doubt
Unit Analysis - The Hitchhiker's Guide to Fleet Operations
Unit Analysis - The Hitchhiker's Guide to Fleet Operations

posted on June 8th, 2010, 4:00 pm

will not be able to cloak-retreat

Dom, without being offensive...you are good with the numbers and the math...but in a real game a KBQ will almost always be able to escape if microed right. And I don't get your point with this disabling...KBQs on retreat will almost always head to a yard and get repaired so weapons stun will have no real effect. But discussion about the KBQ fits better in another topic.

[Optec]

posted on June 8th, 2010, 4:14 pm

Last edited by Optec on June 9th, 2010, 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

//edited by Optec cause of topic merge

If you need to say that, you are of course aiming for offense . I test everything out that I use quite rigorously, but whether you believe that or not is up to you . In another thread you posted, I do recall you asking for advice against Klingons, only to say when others posted that all the solutions would fail. If you are aiming to do that here, let me know ahead of time please, as I do not wish to discuss balance in such a silly context.

On the note of micro: if you resort to micromanagement as a reason why things win versus other things, then I can merely point out that a Klingon opponent will have no advantage in continuing to go with K'beajQ. The Romulan opponent will have a Shipyard up at the expansion, and one at the main base, limiting losses and harassment potential. Furthermore it is quite unbelievable that in your scenario of Shrikes versus K'beajQ that the K'beajQ can escape  (especially when you talk about already 7+ Shrikes). You might as well say that likewise, the Romulan player would be able to escape .

posted on June 8th, 2010, 4:56 pm

Dom, without being offensive...you are good with the numbers and the math...but in a real game a KBQ will almost always be able to escape if microed right. And I don't get your point with this disabling...KBQs on retreat will almost always head to a yard and get repaired so weapons stun will have no real effect. But discussion about the KBQ fits better in another topic.

  Drrr at the moment a ship that has a system disabled by an effect (like the Shrike's weapon disable) and then takes DIRECT SYSTEM DAMAGE (like a KBQ with no shields having it's weapons hit), that system will turn red and be unusable.

  Example:  If a KBQ loses it's shields while fight shrikes, cloaks, then has it's weapons disabled by the shrikes and it's weapons HIT by their disruptors, the system will BREAK, the cloak will drop, and the KBQ is in deep shit.

[Myles]

posted on June 8th, 2010, 5:07 pm

Last edited by Myles on June 8th, 2010, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

just to further take boggz side, boggz didnt mention that cloak is linked to weapons subsystem, no weapons no cloak. just incase that was unclear to anyone. and shrikes take out weapons a lot. i just had a match where my enemy got more kbqq than me but my shrikes worked wonders, even if the kbq runs, shrikes are much faster and can run a kbq down and om nom nom it.

EDIT: thinking about it shrike spam from two yards really hurts klingons bad now. brels dont stand a chance,shrikes production can easily keep up with kbq production if both yards are built at start. if second yard is built at expansion then it offers the benefits of proxy repair, which is really good. so kbq spam is best early tactic against shrike spam. if shrike spam isnt too fast or aggressive then kvorts will om nom nom shrikes.

posted on June 8th, 2010, 5:32 pm

K'vorts rapidly pulverize Shrikes, K'beajQ just are early damage soaks in a Shrike spam.

to clarify by early i meant before pumping out kvorts is possible. should have been clearer. kvorts are best against shrike spam, if u can get to them fast enough. 2 main base staryards spamming shrikes will get a lot of shrikes out, so you will need something earlier than kvorts to help for a short while. which can only be kbqs. once research is up kvorts FTW, those shrikes wont stand a chance.

posted on June 8th, 2010, 5:36 pm

You can build kvorts after your first kbeajq is done from the field yard.

posted on June 8th, 2010, 5:38 pm

if your romulan enemy is aggresive then u probably wont get enough kvorts out in time to defend your mining/expansion. kvorts are best against shrikes. but i fear building the station will rob you of enough early ships to fight. i could be wrong though. either way, against shrike spam u definitely need to get to kvorts

posted on June 9th, 2010, 6:17 am

The point is, a shieldless KBQ will retreat and trying to decloak. Given the case its weapons are knocked off the only problem might be that it uncloaks. Speed difference between KBQ and Shrike is only 20 If you chase the damaged KBQ with 50% hull it takes a while till you can get it down. Maybe it will make it to the yard making the chasing useless or to be more preceice, you fleet is seperated and you might loose more ships. In the mean time (while chasing) all other Klingons keep fireing on your shrikes. They have better weapons and the shrikes less defense...so guess what will happen. The only thing I see is a great advantage in numbers for the Rom which could help.

I really want to see a game where someone wins against a good microed KBQ start (5-7 units) as Rom. If you could provide this we can proove the theory. If not, go on with your math. I will try to do a game with shrikes today maybe so I can proove it on my own. I really hope it works different but I fear not.