The Borg across series/movies
What's your favourite episode? How is romulan ale brewed? - Star Trek in general :-)
posted on December 26th, 2010, 5:28 pm
Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on December 27th, 2010, 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tyler wrote:Command codes never helped when the Borg were involved. Thousands of years of perfecting their assimilation nanites isn't good for that kind of defence.
The borg cannot hack the command codes as they are incripted and without the encription key that would be 10000000000% impossible as shown in first contact where data was order to lock out the computer and he put encription on it, the borg queen then begged data to give her the incription keys so she could decript the command codes.
Prometheus being heavly controlled by the computer is no problem what so ever.
Dom edit: split from Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Prometheus as Experimental Warp-In
posted on December 26th, 2010, 5:35 pm
Bad example; Command codes are not encryption, they are very different things. Command codes are like passwords, encrytion is an actual lockout by ecrypting data. Attempting to hack an encrypted computer is like trying to read a french book without knowing french.
Command codes often get bypassed by races lower than the Borg superbrain.
Command codes often get bypassed by races lower than the Borg superbrain.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 5:49 pm
The Borg never tried to disable any vessels shields using a network link unless they knew the command codes. Otherwise, they used a tractor beam or weapons to disable enemy shields, not command codes. The Prometheus would be in no danger of being hacked unless the Borg knew the command codes of that vessel.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 5:55 pm
Last edited by Tyler on December 26th, 2010, 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
They Borg never hacked shields because they never needed to (shield drainers are more efficient than trying to find the one specific code needed) and they always use the most direct and straight-forward methods, never 'out of the box' thinking (and they're arrogant). They don't need command codes, only to get nanites in to delete or override them.
Computer-controlled Prometheus would be in as much danger as any computer in Starfleet, which get hacked by idiots with no experience every other episode.
Computer-controlled Prometheus would be in as much danger as any computer in Starfleet, which get hacked by idiots with no experience every other episode.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 6:01 pm
What about in Unimatrix Zero? The Borg got Voyager's command codes and ordered Voyager's computers to drop the shields, then fired a Graviton torpedo at minimum yield to keep Voyager away. Otherwise, the Borg used the weapons in an attempt to disable the shields. And I believe that they were trying to get a weapon through the shields to the warp core.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 6:04 pm
That was deep in Voyager, long after the Borg had their villain decay and became 'just another race'. The real Borg were the ones from TNG, the ones with the shield draining weapons.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 6:04 pm
Step 1 - either insert physical nanites into the systems, or turn an officer into a drone to get his command codes.
Step 2 - Use either a physical bypass of the encrypted systems, or the codes from your new drone to gain access to some systems.
Step 3 - Now that you're in the systems, you have a much, much easier time of breaking in the rest of the way.
Alternate method - run through possible encryptions at a rate faster than the best supercomputer in starfleet.
Why would the Borg do this? Because it is the absolute most effecient way to get the new tech in the prommie, as well as several hundred new drones. Once they have control, they can use the system to gas the entire crew, and unlike normal vessels, they can use this thing to attack and assimilate other ships immediately, because it's automated.
Add in this piece of usefulness - take over one part of the ship, get all parts of the ship.
Step 2 - Use either a physical bypass of the encrypted systems, or the codes from your new drone to gain access to some systems.
Step 3 - Now that you're in the systems, you have a much, much easier time of breaking in the rest of the way.
Alternate method - run through possible encryptions at a rate faster than the best supercomputer in starfleet.
Why would the Borg do this? Because it is the absolute most effecient way to get the new tech in the prommie, as well as several hundred new drones. Once they have control, they can use the system to gas the entire crew, and unlike normal vessels, they can use this thing to attack and assimilate other ships immediately, because it's automated.
Add in this piece of usefulness - take over one part of the ship, get all parts of the ship.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 6:33 pm
I have to disagree with the Borg being 'just another race'. The Borg were the hardest to defeat. If you can't get them through a direct assault, out-smart them. Which is exactly what Voyager did. As well as the Enterprise-D, and Enterprise-E.
And as I recall, at least half of the Borg episodes in Voyager dealt with a vessel that was disabled or destroyed by some sort of virus being injected into the collective when the Borg assimilated someone, or the Borg were not even really in contact with Voyager.
All in all, Voyager only came in contact with a fully functional cube or other Borg vessel in 7 episodes. One of them was brought back online towards the end of the episode, then self-destructed. The other had only 5 drones aboard and was not connected to the collective. So counting those two, there were 9 episodes. The rest were either destroyed cubes, or just a plot advancer with no real Borg vessels featured.
Besides, I doubt that anything can survive a subspace conduit collapsing in ontop of them, a weapon detonating near the primary power source from the inside, or a vessel blowing into a million pieces when it gets into the hangar bay. Well, that kind-of depends on the size of the vessel, but in all instances, the Borg were either disabled or destroyed because of a tactic that the Borg were not expecting.
And as I recall, at least half of the Borg episodes in Voyager dealt with a vessel that was disabled or destroyed by some sort of virus being injected into the collective when the Borg assimilated someone, or the Borg were not even really in contact with Voyager.
All in all, Voyager only came in contact with a fully functional cube or other Borg vessel in 7 episodes. One of them was brought back online towards the end of the episode, then self-destructed. The other had only 5 drones aboard and was not connected to the collective. So counting those two, there were 9 episodes. The rest were either destroyed cubes, or just a plot advancer with no real Borg vessels featured.
Besides, I doubt that anything can survive a subspace conduit collapsing in ontop of them, a weapon detonating near the primary power source from the inside, or a vessel blowing into a million pieces when it gets into the hangar bay. Well, that kind-of depends on the size of the vessel, but in all instances, the Borg were either disabled or destroyed because of a tactic that the Borg were not expecting.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 6:47 pm
Last edited by Tyler on December 26th, 2010, 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
While I agree with most of their appearances being off screen or only indirectly involved (something I pointed out before), there were just another race that lost anything that made them Borg. Being the hardest doesn't make you different, though, just more difficult to beat.
I'm sure others can think of several other things.
- The Queen gave them a leader and stripped them of their original nature; the single collective became an oppressive dictatorship (can't remember if Voyager or First Contact did that first).
- Their ships lost their decentralized nature, having central hubs that could be disabled like other races
- Their appoach to problems became more unconventional than what BoBW showed them doing
- They lost the ability to adapt, with assimilation being required just to know what they were facing, something even worse than being just another race
I'm sure others can think of several other things.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 7:15 pm
- So, there had to be something controlling the collective. I don't anything wrong with that.
- With a network, it's very difficult to build one that doesn't have a central point. Especially one with so many "nodes" connected to it. I do agree that the Borg have a lack of redundancy in that area, but the smaller vessels simply wouldn't have enough room for high-redundancy systems.
- BoBW? I'm not familiar with that phrase.
- They did not loose their ability to adapt. After each encounter, the weapons were remodulated to a different frequency. They have always needed to assimilate information in order to know what they were up against. It's just that sometimes, they went in over their heads. And some technologies are harder to adapt to than others.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 7:20 pm
TCR_500 wrote:
- BoBW? I'm not familiar with that phrase.
BoBW = "Best of Both Worlds" TNG episodes.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 7:28 pm
Last edited by Tyler on December 26th, 2010, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Borg was a decentralized hive mind, no 'central figure' in control, just the collective will and directives. The Queen leader opposes everything the Borg were in TNG.
Borg ships have no central points, everything was spread out to make it impossible to disable things by weapons fire. That doesn't agree with Voyager having Cubes attacked by Phaser fire at the 'Propulsion system'.
Best of Both Worlds. The most 'unconventional' they got was only half-assimilating Picard instead of fully assimilating him, otherwise they just plowed ahead in the most direct fashion they could. Which they also did in First Contact.
Ever heard of the Borg-8472 war, where it was specifically stated that they couldn't understand what they cannot assimilate? They actually said that it was required to assimilate something. TNG showed them adapting to weapons they get hit by without needing to assimilate ther attacker first, Enterprises weapons had greatly reduced effect compared to the first encounter despite no Locutus yet. Riker said they 'analyze and adapt' they don't just 'assimilate and adapt'.
Borg ships have no central points, everything was spread out to make it impossible to disable things by weapons fire. That doesn't agree with Voyager having Cubes attacked by Phaser fire at the 'Propulsion system'.
Best of Both Worlds. The most 'unconventional' they got was only half-assimilating Picard instead of fully assimilating him, otherwise they just plowed ahead in the most direct fashion they could. Which they also did in First Contact.
Ever heard of the Borg-8472 war, where it was specifically stated that they couldn't understand what they cannot assimilate? They actually said that it was required to assimilate something. TNG showed them adapting to weapons they get hit by without needing to assimilate ther attacker first, Enterprises weapons had greatly reduced effect compared to the first encounter despite no Locutus yet. Riker said they 'analyze and adapt' they don't just 'assimilate and adapt'.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 7:37 pm
Well First Contact was a dumb action movie.
For further explanation I refer you here: Red Letter Review Part 2 (looks like 1 got taken down).
Basically: it was a silly action movie and needed a 'figurehead' for the bad guy. BoBW had less money to make explosions and more story to fall upon so you come up with a smarter and better thought-out enemy.
Voyager just did whatever they fuckin' pleased. They butchered the Borg in my opinion, but did so completely in the vein of First Contact. They and FC turned the Borg into Zombies.
For further explanation I refer you here: Red Letter Review Part 2 (looks like 1 got taken down).
Basically: it was a silly action movie and needed a 'figurehead' for the bad guy. BoBW had less money to make explosions and more story to fall upon so you come up with a smarter and better thought-out enemy.
Voyager just did whatever they fuckin' pleased. They butchered the Borg in my opinion, but did so completely in the vein of First Contact. They and FC turned the Borg into Zombies.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 7:46 pm
Last edited by Tyler on December 26th, 2010, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Zombie part I don't mind, but then I like zombies and even TNG ones could show similar traits at times.
posted on December 26th, 2010, 8:01 pm
Well, there will always be inconsistencies in science fiction shows. A way to smooth them out is to make it so that some weapons are harder to adapt to than others. Species-8472 had weapons so advanced and so powerful that the Borg couldn't adapt to them. I'm sure that they had analyzed the weapons, but they couldn't find a way to adapt because of the technological advances in the weapons.
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