New series?

posted on August 17th, 2009, 2:29 pm

How can anyone argue it's about a perfect universe when the entire show is about resolving conflicts? 

(and of course exploring the unknown... which is usually then again about resolving what the unknown throws at you)

posted on August 17th, 2009, 2:31 pm

The whole show shows the Universe isn't perfect outside the Federation (or even in it, sometimes).

posted on August 17th, 2009, 2:42 pm

Yup 

posted on August 17th, 2009, 6:48 pm

You have a slightly provocating opinion on both, starwars and stargate. Be careful not to come across people who think too different, when spitting that generalizing words. 

don't get me wrong, I do really like stargate. Since Star Trek has been cancelled it's the only available Science Fiction I have. Many plots in Stargate remind me on Star Trek. However, there is too much boring shooting. 1time shooting is fun. 2 times is okay, too. But all the time...  :guns:

And Star Wars... something light for desert.... like Harry Potter or American Pie . Feritale in space

posted on August 17th, 2009, 7:14 pm

I think it is an overall problem for all fictional stories that the terrestrians are always outlines as the good ones who have the most proper morale, in especial a peaceful one, which isnt the case when we look at the history of mankind.  I wished there were some more divergence in the feds themselves.

i was ecstatic when section 31 was entered into the mythos.  finally some humans that realized you had to get messy sometimes to get the job done.

@Hope.  the main reason tha enterprise failed is because it was a poor carbon copy of the other shows....that and scott bakula who was a horrible choice for the captain.  voyager was essentially the same, most episodes involved alot of firefights but it was done better than on enterprise.

as for roddenberrys vision of humanity outgrowing its infancy....its a pipe dream and i dont know what roddenberry was smoking but i want some of it.

star wars is way more accurate in showing human civilization at least in how it behaves.  there are good people and bad people and people in between.  it also shows how species react to eachother a bit better.  there is more comingling of species although they often dont get along versus startrek where every species is put nicely in there little corner of the universe.  oh and humans werent all pussies like in star trek.

star trek on the other hand portrays the vast majority of humanity as this "enlightened" species that is struggling to deal with those lesser species around them.  i can recall only a few of episodes where humanity was the species that needed to "grow".  usually it was with other way around.

as for stargate i dont mind the show but to be honest it tries to be hip with all the quips and clever lines, i little bit to much irreverance.  the new show stargate universe is supposedly going to be darker and grittier so hopefully it will be a better show.

posted on August 17th, 2009, 9:23 pm

I get the feeling that you think the people as they are right now in Western societies have the only possible ideology and can never change their behavoiur. But this is what Star Trek wants to tell you, there is more than just us Ferengi. I find it sad that you can't consider the possiblity of a better society than the current one.

Star Wars does not have the aim to convey such ideas. Star Wars is middleage in space, with princesses, monsters, evil kings, magic and somehow they are all one family. Once upon a time...
i don't see realism in Star Wars, I'm wondering what George sometimes smokes.  Good show anyhow.

Many people say, that the biggest problem of Star Trek is that they have lost the positive idea of the future. I think that is partly true, nevertheless I wouldn't be a friend of TNG 2. They should make TNG with story arcs like in DS9 and it'd be wonderful. 

posted on August 18th, 2009, 12:14 am

DS9 definetly was better than TNG.

as for my assessment of humanity i simply like to think of it as being realistic.  you have churchill and you have chamberlain.  one of them thought that everything would work out in the end as long as we have happy thoughts and the other one recognized that there are times when getting dirty is necessary.

throughout all of human civilization there literally have been only a couple of decades where there were no wars being fought.  for the rest of the tens of thousands of years we were at constant war.

i actually dont have an overly pessimistic view of humanities future and in fact im going to assume that we wont be as naive as the federation.  there might indeed be fewer wars in the future but not because all of a sudden humanity became "enlightened".  it will be because wars will be fought with technology and use economics and political influence more than simply shooting missiles.  its every generals wet dream to win a war without firing a shot.

posted on August 18th, 2009, 1:11 am

i actually dont have an overly pessimistic view of humanities future and in fact im going to assume that we wont be as naive as the federation.  there might indeed be fewer wars in the future but not because all of a sudden humanity became "enlightened".  it will be because wars will be fought with technology and use economics and political influence more than simply shooting missiles.   its every generals wet dream to win a war without firing a shot.

The Federation is not naive, they just try to use all options before fighting. Even in TNG and TOS, they were more than willing to fight if they had to (as the several Wars they were involved in show).

posted on August 18th, 2009, 12:09 pm

I won't answer this here because I don't want another thread to be closed  .

I can only say: TNG had the better crew, Picard is just the best character in Star Trek. DS9 however, had the better stories. They also had worse, if I think about the whole deadly boring and ennoying prophet and pahwraiths thing.That was a terrible arc they should have kicked in the second episode  .

posted on August 18th, 2009, 12:27 pm

pahwraiths, how i hated that phantasy stuff! 

posted on August 18th, 2009, 1:27 pm

Yeah, just a painful attempt to appeal to the religious side of viewers...

posted on August 18th, 2009, 4:36 pm

Yeah, I was not at all fond of the religious elements in DS9. I found it to be very un-ST. It seems the writers couldn't decide where to go with it, and was full of conflicting messages that became incoherent and silly.

So I hope there's no more of that in the next series. 

[nathanj]

posted on August 20th, 2009, 3:56 am

Last edited by nathanj on August 20th, 2009, 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

i used to have the dominion taking over of ds9 episode on tape that i would watch from time to time.   i remember fast forwarding through the whole pah wraith section cause it didnt seem to fit in for some reason i couldnt put my finger on.  of course to be honest i would fast forward through pretty much everything else just to get to the goodies.

im not sure that the whole pah wraith thing was meant for religious people so much as for fantasy type people.  im not sure why they thought they had to put that in there.  most people are  just as comfortable watching fantasy as well as scifi and dont need for them to be mixed to enjoy them.  a recent trend in fantasy is the steampunk idea.  as seen in WoW and the Thief series and even in games like morrowind where they had dwemer robots.

posted on August 20th, 2009, 4:40 pm

Hihi, I also made it fast forward. The worst was the arc at the end with Kai Winn and Dukat . Dukat was in fact one of the coolest characters in DS9(after Garak ), but when he became crazy it was all over. Very sad though. They should have made Damar mad and give Dukat his freedom fighter role. Or nobody should have gone crazy... 
The same with fast forward goes to Odo and the Founder...
They had very great stories in DS9, but those things were worse than any other story arcs in the other series'.
In Enterprise they realized(or at least Manny Coto realized) that nobody really wanted to see the temporal war thing, so they killed it quite quickly in the 3rd season8was it the 3rd? I think so ).

posted on August 20th, 2009, 5:03 pm

In Enterprise they realized(or at least Manny Coto realized) that nobody really wanted to see the temporal war thing, so they killed it quite quickly in the 3rd season8was it the 3rd? I think so ).

I personally really liked that arc in Enterprise; I thought the way they ended it was quite anticlimactic. Actually everything about that show ended up being very anticlimactic!  Although it remains one of my favorites; by far the most consistent series from ST yet.