New "Post Voyager" TV series in the works?
What's your favourite episode? How is romulan ale brewed? - Star Trek in general :-)
posted on September 26th, 2011, 8:04 am
meh The federation is a bit bloated. I mean it is the largest empire and they seem to have infinite solutions to do anything.
The Maquis and the DMZ made the federation Less utopian and more down to earth. With real problems and not some snooze fest like Earth.
Besides eventually the Federation will be too large to manage. Especially since it is a Centralized Government and eventually communications and travelling to one side of the boarder to the other gets bogged down. It would be nice to see the Federation get Splintered up. Just like what happened to Any kind of Large Empire. Like the Roman empire, The Chinese dynasties and The Mongol empire. They expanded heavily But eventually they lacked new ways to manage such empires.
Besides., It always seem that the other empires are static when it comes to expanding territories or developing their empires
The Maquis and the DMZ made the federation Less utopian and more down to earth. With real problems and not some snooze fest like Earth.
Besides eventually the Federation will be too large to manage. Especially since it is a Centralized Government and eventually communications and travelling to one side of the boarder to the other gets bogged down. It would be nice to see the Federation get Splintered up. Just like what happened to Any kind of Large Empire. Like the Roman empire, The Chinese dynasties and The Mongol empire. They expanded heavily But eventually they lacked new ways to manage such empires.
Besides., It always seem that the other empires are static when it comes to expanding territories or developing their empires
posted on September 26th, 2011, 8:32 am
A Federation civil war would be interesting and might be a fun series to watch. 
posted on September 26th, 2011, 9:09 pm
robin1983 wrote:meh The federation is a bit bloated. I mean it is the largest empire and they seem to have infinite solutions to do anything.
The Maquis and the DMZ made the federation Less utopian and more down to earth. With real problems and not some snooze fest like Earth.
Besides eventually the Federation will be too large to manage. Especially since it is a Centralized Government and eventually communications and travelling to one side of the boarder to the other gets bogged down. It would be nice to see the Federation get Splintered up. Just like what happened to Any kind of Large Empire. Like the Roman empire, The Chinese dynasties and The Mongol empire. They expanded heavily But eventually they lacked new ways to manage such empires.
Besides., It always seem that the other empires are static when it comes to expanding territories or developing their empires
If i remember correctly, the Federation has a strong centralized governemnt at Earth but that government is also split up between embassies on other planets. Plus the member planets still have their own formalized government. After all, the Federation isn't an Empire, it is an Organization, a big orgnaization made up of members. Think of it like the UN (United Nations), there are only member states (in the Federation's case, Member Planets).
My examples:
1) Vulcan is still controlled by Vulcans
2) Trill
3) Bajor
4) Alpha Centauri
5) Betazad.
The list can easily go on. When did these Members ever give up their individual governments to become an empire?
posted on September 26th, 2011, 10:26 pm
That isn't fully true. cause the UN doesn't have an army, research division or intelligence arm. UN depends on the members for that. The federation does have it.
Since the federation depends on their ships to basically do EVERYTHING. from diplomacy, to research to policing raiders and war, that puts the ships on high pressure to perform.
Imagine The Cardassians fighting on one side and the Romulans on the other side of the border. The Federation is so large that ships takes weeks to go anywhere. Not to mention that communications have to go back and forth to Earth and they need to recall (somehow) exploring vessels for defence (cause i am guessing the enterprise isn't the only vessel doing such things).
Not to mention that All of those worlds with the exception of Bajor are highly dependent on the federation for defence. If the member planets had their own warships, then it would put less strain on Starfleet to protect their members
So that is basically a coordinating nightmare. Especially since the Federation Council with all its members decides A LOT of policies like:
the Council began debate on the ratification of the Federation-Cardassian Treaty. It rejected a request by a Native American representative to re-negotiate the status of Dorvan V and ordered the evacuation of all Federation citizens from the planet.
and The Federation Council was responsible for the decision not to give the Founders the cure to the morphogenic virus.
So eventually when the federation becomes so large, it will disconnect its involvement of part of its member states cause it can't protect/ or get the information on time.
Since the federation depends on their ships to basically do EVERYTHING. from diplomacy, to research to policing raiders and war, that puts the ships on high pressure to perform.
Imagine The Cardassians fighting on one side and the Romulans on the other side of the border. The Federation is so large that ships takes weeks to go anywhere. Not to mention that communications have to go back and forth to Earth and they need to recall (somehow) exploring vessels for defence (cause i am guessing the enterprise isn't the only vessel doing such things).
Not to mention that All of those worlds with the exception of Bajor are highly dependent on the federation for defence. If the member planets had their own warships, then it would put less strain on Starfleet to protect their members
So that is basically a coordinating nightmare. Especially since the Federation Council with all its members decides A LOT of policies like:
the Council began debate on the ratification of the Federation-Cardassian Treaty. It rejected a request by a Native American representative to re-negotiate the status of Dorvan V and ordered the evacuation of all Federation citizens from the planet.
and The Federation Council was responsible for the decision not to give the Founders the cure to the morphogenic virus.
So eventually when the federation becomes so large, it will disconnect its involvement of part of its member states cause it can't protect/ or get the information on time.
jetnova16 wrote:If i remember correctly, the Federation has a strong centralized governemnt at Earth but that government is also split up between embassies on other planets. Plus the member planets still have their own formalized government. After all, the Federation isn't an Empire, it is an Organization, a big orgnaization made up of members. Think of it like the UN (United Nations), there are only member states (in the Federation's case, Member Planets).
My examples:
1) Vulcan is still controlled by Vulcans
2) Trill
3) Bajor
4) Alpha Centauri
5) Betazad.
The list can easily go on. When did these Members ever give up their individual governments to become an empire?
posted on September 26th, 2011, 11:25 pm
robin1983 wrote:That isn't fully true. cause the UN doesn't have an army, research division or intelligence arm. UN depends on the members for that. The federation does have it.
Since the federation depends on their ships to basically do EVERYTHING. from diplomacy, to research to policing raiders and war, that puts the ships on high pressure to perform.
Imagine The Cardassians fighting on one side and the Romulans on the other side of the border. The Federation is so large that ships takes weeks to go anywhere. Not to mention that communications have to go back and forth to Earth and they need to recall (somehow) exploring vessels for defence (cause i am guessing the enterprise isn't the only vessel doing such things).
Not to mention that All of those worlds with the exception of Bajor are highly dependent on the federation for defence. If the member planets had their own warships, then it would put less strain on Starfleet to protect their members
So that is basically a coordinating nightmare. Especially since the Federation Council with all its members decides A LOT of policies like:
the Council began debate on the ratification of the Federation-Cardassian Treaty. It rejected a request by a Native American representative to re-negotiate the status of Dorvan V and ordered the evacuation of all Federation citizens from the planet.
and The Federation Council was responsible for the decision not to give the Founders the cure to the morphogenic virus.
So eventually when the federation becomes so large, it will disconnect its involvement of part of its member states cause it can't protect/ or get the information on time.
The Federation doesn’t have an army, Starfleet has an army possibly but the Federation IS an Organization still, Starfleet is more what you are thinking about. After all, in the Enterprise NX-01 Era (2151 – 2161) Starfleet had an army, the MACOS.
Defense:
The different members of the Federation’s planets are responsible for policing their own systems and that responsibility does fall to their own ships. The Vulcans, the Andorians, the Tellarites, have their own ships still, you can name any race and they most likely have their own ships for defense still.
Communications:
Each starbase just about has an Admiral in charge of them or there is usually a ship commanded by or has an admiral stationed onboard in almost every sector of Federation Space. Each starbase has their own ships (actually fleets) attached to them, during the Dominion War, ships did return to the stations that they were originally attached to unless those Fleets were called upon for a special operation such as “Operation Return”.
One other thing when it comes to communication, there are Relay Stations and also starbases that receive the messages as well as Earth. Obviously these starbases have decision making people stationed there and admirals that can make the tough decisions on a moment’s notice.
Policies:
For one thing the Federation Council wouldn’t have wanted to give the Founders the Cure to the Morphogenic Virus, after all, we were at war with the Dominion and the Founders were/are the leaders of the Dominion. Why would they want to heal them when in return they would still continue the war? To quote the Female Founder: “I have no intensions of surrendering my forces.” Plus the Morphogenic Virus wasn’t created by the Federation or Starfleet, it was created by the Rogue Agency Section 31, thus the Federation Council didn’t really even have the cure, and even if they did just to use it would mean that they would have to admit to the existence of a Rogue Agency operating within the heart of Starfleet and the Federation and that wouldn’t go well with the other races of the Alpha Quadrant, think the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar for examples, we know about them only because of spies and intelligence gathering, Section 31 hasn’t been discovered by other races yet if I remember.
The Cardassian-Federation Treaty:
In the case of Dorvan V, the Federation Council couldn’t Re-Open Negotiations on the subject of not giving the planet to the Cardassians because their ultimate reason was it would case the other planets to do the same. Thus the Council wouldn’t have gotten anywhere in their decisions and it would have provoked even further hostilities with the Cardassians, which the Federation didn’t want. They had to appease the Cardassians at the expense of the different planets that would end up going to the Cardassians; you didn’t see the Cardassians making complaints about leaving their worlds did you?
Even if something like that did happen that the Romulans were attacking on one side of the boarder (anyways the Romulans aren’t the aggressive kind to provoke a situation or a fight) and the Cardassians on another boarder, there would already be ships around to defend and reinforcements from the nearest starbase would also be logical to think about. After all, there are ships dedicated to patrolling the Federations boarders. The Soyuz-class was a TMP ship class for this type of assignment. I suggest you read the book Star Trek The Next Generation Ship of the Line by Diane Carey, there is a lot of helpful incites for the Klingons in that book were massing at the Neutral Zone to attack or so the Federation thinks, the fact is they are a diversion for one ship to get through and destroy a fully populated and operational starbase that they had infiltrated. Thanks to the USS Bozeman, the ship was discovered, and because of the Log Buoy that the Bozeman launched, the starbase was saved because the Klingon ship was stopped and destroyed Enroute to the starbase. (Just a good example that I could think of from memory)
The Future of the Federation:
The Federation wouldn’t necessarily fall apart of abandon any of its members. Anyways as I have already stated, the individual members of the Federation are still responsible for their own defense because they do have their own ships. Anyways, getting to an area faster might just be something that for example the USS Aventine could easily do with its Quantum Slipstream Drive (Star Trek Destiny), thus the future Federation ships have an even faster way of traveling.
When it comes to Federation Politics, and anything involving the Member Planets, I went and did some important research for the Star Trek Novel that I wrote and that I am currently revising before it can get published. One of the things I found out, is that each Member Planet has representation and members in and at the Federation Council, thus on Earth. These diplomats, ambassadors or whatever you want to call them are in touch with their homeworld, their ships and their government as a whole.
On a side note, your idea with the Cardassians fighting the Federation and the Romulans at the same time isn’t fully thought out. The Cardassians are in disarray and don’t even have enough to defend themselves anymore after the Dominion decimated their homeworld, (plus Star Trek Armada II is set after the Dominion War, and the Cardassians needed to rebuild their fleets and somehow they managed to keep it secret from the Klingons and the Federation and further, the Klingons were occupying Cardassian Planets with garrisons on different ones.) That raises another point, the Klingons are allied with the Federation and thus are able to help them out as well, allies usually are supposed to do that.
*****
Well I don't want to argue about this or turn it into a flame war or anything. So, I am just going to leave it at that.
I think it is best to get back on to the true topic or have this thread split into two one on "A Post-Voyager Series", and another on "The Federation, its Member Planets, and how things possibly work?"
posted on September 27th, 2011, 4:31 am
I think y'all have the right idea but the wrong analogy.
The Federation is more analogous to the United States.
The United State's is composed of States, some of which were for a time (Texas as an example) sovereign states, this was especially true in the early days of the country, at the time Americans were more connected to their home state first, one example would be during the civil war Robert E. Lee turned down command of the union army because he couldn't bring himself to fight his home state.
The whole principal of the US is that these states, rather than each being separate countries that go their own way, band together as one whole with a unified set of basic laws with the rest being left up to the states to choose how they want to live within those laws.
And the Federation ? Composed of....... Andorians, Vulcans, Tellerities, Humans, etc, all of whom had their own planets and goverments, but decided to live under a single set of laws etc etc.
As for the mention of the Maquis, yeah I think that deffinitly should have been handled differntely in DS9/TNG, it should have been prolonged prehaps even gotten more attention.
If we got a new series (and it were to be well done) it could be pretty interesting, as the federation has shown (S31 not counting) a tendency to not react well to it's colonies telling it to go stuff itself.
The Federation is more analogous to the United States.
The United State's is composed of States, some of which were for a time (Texas as an example) sovereign states, this was especially true in the early days of the country, at the time Americans were more connected to their home state first, one example would be during the civil war Robert E. Lee turned down command of the union army because he couldn't bring himself to fight his home state.
The whole principal of the US is that these states, rather than each being separate countries that go their own way, band together as one whole with a unified set of basic laws with the rest being left up to the states to choose how they want to live within those laws.
And the Federation ? Composed of....... Andorians, Vulcans, Tellerities, Humans, etc, all of whom had their own planets and goverments, but decided to live under a single set of laws etc etc.
As for the mention of the Maquis, yeah I think that deffinitly should have been handled differntely in DS9/TNG, it should have been prolonged prehaps even gotten more attention.
If we got a new series (and it were to be well done) it could be pretty interesting, as the federation has shown (S31 not counting) a tendency to not react well to it's colonies telling it to go stuff itself.
posted on September 27th, 2011, 7:40 am
Last edited by robin1983 on September 27th, 2011, 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The romulan / Cardie example was just an example. I wanted to show what happens if a large empire like the Feds, would do if it would be attacked on 2 sides of their borders. It is a Logistical nightmare.
And i don't see Vulcan or betazed warships being just as advanced as the federation, if there are any... cause they seem to never help out in any battle which seems awkward
and anything from the books are considered non canon to most people.
Other than that, it is interesting to see that everyone has a different idea how the Feds actually works... We know more on how other empires work than the feds lol.
But going back on topic. It would Be interesting To work out a more tension based federation. I mean damn. Look how the UN reacts to a crises. Would the federation do anything better ? Not to mention tensions between member races. I would suspect that if Ferengi's ever would join the Feds, Betazed would suspicious of them. And there would be similar kind of racial tensions between members as not everyone will go along with everyone, similar to what is happening now Between US christians and US muslims.
It just makes the Federation less Utopian and more down to earth
just as a reference... this is how big the Feds are
And i don't see Vulcan or betazed warships being just as advanced as the federation, if there are any... cause they seem to never help out in any battle which seems awkward
and anything from the books are considered non canon to most people.
Other than that, it is interesting to see that everyone has a different idea how the Feds actually works... We know more on how other empires work than the feds lol.
But going back on topic. It would Be interesting To work out a more tension based federation. I mean damn. Look how the UN reacts to a crises. Would the federation do anything better ? Not to mention tensions between member races. I would suspect that if Ferengi's ever would join the Feds, Betazed would suspicious of them. And there would be similar kind of racial tensions between members as not everyone will go along with everyone, similar to what is happening now Between US christians and US muslims.
It just makes the Federation less Utopian and more down to earth
just as a reference... this is how big the Feds are
posted on November 5th, 2011, 4:49 pm
Honestly, i would like to see an after Enterprise-B Launch to Pre-Enterprise D
posted on November 5th, 2011, 6:56 pm
alexbond45 wrote:Honestly, i would like to see an after Enterprise-B Launch to Pre-Enterprise D
Thatd certainly be interesting, but itd be difficult to pull off since they already established the bridge crew for both ships, from about... 10-20ish years ago current time. I think some of those people mightve aged just a bit since then
posted on November 5th, 2011, 7:06 pm
Last edited by Anonymous on November 5th, 2011, 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
i'd like adventures of ent c.
they established a bridge crew, but that was the crew that was with the ship when it got asploded.
maybe it had a different crew when launched. we dont know when it was launched.
we know ent b was launched in 2293 (generations)
then 51 years later the ent c was destroyed in 2344 (yesterday's enterprise)
in those 51 years we dont know exactly when the ent b was destroyed. maybe it crashed into the moon in 2294.
slightly more likely is that the 51 years was roughly split in half, with the ent b being around for the first half of the ~50 then the c.
that leads to around 25 years in service for the ent C. furthermore if we assume that the crew of the ent b moved on to the ent c, like when picard's crew went from D to E, then we have over 25 years for 1 bridge crew to last. so its very possible there were reshuffles on the bridge crew.
the captain would be the most likely to be replaced. captains dont tend to be that young, they have to have some experience, so >25 years is a long time to be in command, especially of the same ship, and without accepting promotions to desk jockey. we could have a young rachel garrett (the captain in 2344), as a junior officer be helm or ops or something. she would be younger, and so wouldnt need to look like captain garrett did in yesterday's ent. so they could use a different actress.
EDIT: the worst typo possible happened, one letter different completely changed the meaning of the sentence.
they established a bridge crew, but that was the crew that was with the ship when it got asploded.
maybe it had a different crew when launched. we dont know when it was launched.
we know ent b was launched in 2293 (generations)
then 51 years later the ent c was destroyed in 2344 (yesterday's enterprise)
in those 51 years we dont know exactly when the ent b was destroyed. maybe it crashed into the moon in 2294.
slightly more likely is that the 51 years was roughly split in half, with the ent b being around for the first half of the ~50 then the c.
that leads to around 25 years in service for the ent C. furthermore if we assume that the crew of the ent b moved on to the ent c, like when picard's crew went from D to E, then we have over 25 years for 1 bridge crew to last. so its very possible there were reshuffles on the bridge crew.
the captain would be the most likely to be replaced. captains dont tend to be that young, they have to have some experience, so >25 years is a long time to be in command, especially of the same ship, and without accepting promotions to desk jockey. we could have a young rachel garrett (the captain in 2344), as a junior officer be helm or ops or something. she would be younger, and so wouldnt need to look like captain garrett did in yesterday's ent. so they could use a different actress.
EDIT: the worst typo possible happened, one letter different completely changed the meaning of the sentence.
posted on November 5th, 2011, 8:10 pm
you put ent b launched in 2293, then it was destroyed in 2344, but we don't know when ent b was destroyed. but, since you gave the episode, i know you mean ent c. ... at least I'm pretty sure I've got the right episode in mind, or else I'm confused.
and the only thing about this, is i think you'll run into the same problems as enterprise. you can't go back in time in my view with star trek. i thought this right away when i heard about enterprise. there will be no new technologies ever fully introduce. yeah, maybe they meet some alien culture with neat tricks, but nothing that gets integrated. or else the problem is, so the ent c found a way to do x, but in tng, x wasn't even possible.
star trek has to move forward in my view. i can see the desire for a well thought out enterprise c story line... (that explains how things in tng time were originated, like enterprise and holodecks) but you wouldn't have much potential. unless we were going to go into some of the wars, like fed vs cardassian, and fed vs klingons... but I dunno.
need a futuristic star trek, or just one that picks up a little later so that there is a lot of potential to work with.
and the only thing about this, is i think you'll run into the same problems as enterprise. you can't go back in time in my view with star trek. i thought this right away when i heard about enterprise. there will be no new technologies ever fully introduce. yeah, maybe they meet some alien culture with neat tricks, but nothing that gets integrated. or else the problem is, so the ent c found a way to do x, but in tng, x wasn't even possible.
star trek has to move forward in my view. i can see the desire for a well thought out enterprise c story line... (that explains how things in tng time were originated, like enterprise and holodecks) but you wouldn't have much potential. unless we were going to go into some of the wars, like fed vs cardassian, and fed vs klingons... but I dunno.
need a futuristic star trek, or just one that picks up a little later so that there is a lot of potential to work with.
posted on November 5th, 2011, 8:26 pm
godsvoice wrote:you put ent b launched in 2293, then it was destroyed in 2344, but we don't know when ent b was destroyed. but, since you gave the episode, i know you mean ent c. ... at least I'm pretty sure I've got the right episode in mind, or else I'm confused.
yeah i did mean ent c.
ent b might not even have been destroyed, maybe decommed maybe sucked into another dimension by daleks. no idea. i thought it was fair to both ent b and c to go for them each getting ~25 years out of the ~50.
also fed v cardie war would be awesome. as would fed v tzenkethi.
cardies had some good characters in garak and dukat. so if they could capture similar characters again it would be awesome.
posted on November 5th, 2011, 10:02 pm
What we need first is first few trekky seasons where they solve problems trhoughout the universe, then they encounter a new race, essentially some reptilian genocidal lunatics that are hell bent on exterminating every life down to the simplest form of bacteria that didn't originate from their planet and would make the borg look like pussycats! 
That would be a real stomper! A beacon of civilization such as the federation vs. irrational rage of murderous xenophobic aliens with little tolerance for all things living!
And it wouldn't end there. The invaders pouring in from outside the galaxy eventually unites all the races in the galaxy, even the borg and the dominion would join a desperate fight against a never ending downpoar of enemy ships!
That would be a real stomper! A beacon of civilization such as the federation vs. irrational rage of murderous xenophobic aliens with little tolerance for all things living!
And it wouldn't end there. The invaders pouring in from outside the galaxy eventually unites all the races in the galaxy, even the borg and the dominion would join a desperate fight against a never ending downpoar of enemy ships!
posted on November 5th, 2011, 10:26 pm
Beef wrote:murderous xenophobic aliens with little tolerance for all things living!
murderous xenophobes? nah, been done before in almost every episode of voyager.
posted on November 6th, 2011, 1:40 am
If they do another, I personally (yes, i'm going to get so badly trolled for this) would like to see another station based one, like DS9. Perhaps a bit less dark though. Although, it kept it gripping and more suspense for me. Kept me coming back for it. I do however have doubts as to if they would. I'd hate to see them go into the past though, or reboot the whole thing and make a new timeline for it.
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