K't'inga, D7 discussion

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on January 30th, 2011, 6:04 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on January 30th, 2011, 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

topmey becomes ktinga not d7.

also a miner would have a lot less crew on it than a combat ship. i bet that klingon ships regularly carry more combat personnel than they need. boarding parties and whatnot.

also imagine trying to assimilate 400ish dudes.

Dom edit: Split from Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Klingon Mining Error

posted on January 30th, 2011, 6:07 pm

Try 800, that's the only crew compliment for a K't'inga on MA.

Also, try imaging assimilating 800 crew... without destroying the fragile scout-level destroyer first.

posted on January 30th, 2011, 6:12 pm

Try 800, that's the only crew compliment for a K't'inga on MA.

Also, try imaging assimilating 800 crew... without destroying the fragile scout-level destroyer first.

whats the crew count on a scube again

posted on January 30th, 2011, 6:16 pm

Lower...

posted on January 30th, 2011, 6:23 pm

topmey becomes ktinga not d7.

If I recall correctly the K'Tinga IS a D7 model, the K'Tinga version is just the TMP refit if the TOS D7 model.

Of course the K'Tinga CGI model has been seen in Enterprise as a current era vessel AND in Voyager as an old TOS era sleeper ship, so it gets around a lot.

And Tyler, the D7 series is smaller than the Connie class, so it's crew would be in the 300ish range, even with marines.

posted on January 30th, 2011, 6:38 pm

And Tyler, the D7 series is smaller than the Connie class, so it's crew would be in the 300ish range, even with marines.

Who cares about the size? The Constitution before the slightly size increasing refit had over 400 crew, and they don't have marines.

DS9 Tech manual says 800 + flight crew and marines, no other source gives another.

posted on January 30th, 2011, 7:10 pm

If I recall correctly the K'Tinga IS a D7 model, the K'Tinga version is just the TMP refit if the TOS D7 model.

u dont recall correctly. i was never even identified on screen as called ktinga, that was just accepted as all the producers called it that and it appeared in the novel of ST:TMP

it was never mentioned to be a sub type of D7, it was never mentioned to be a refit D7, it was never mentioned to be similar in any way to the D7 other than visually. so there is no evidence to support your claim. as far as canon is concerned its a ship class of its own.

i personally think it was a homage to the D7, new tech, new design, just built to look similar, like the kbq is too.

so ktinga is to D7, as excel 2 is to excel 1.

Of course the K'Tinga CGI model has been seen in Enterprise as a current era vessel AND in Voyager as an old TOS era sleeper ship, so it gets around a lot.

yup look at ex astris scientia for detail on that. a lot of it was vfx errors.

posted on January 30th, 2011, 7:39 pm

Here this will help

  That link has a great article with lots of references and information directly from the effects artists regarding what was planned and what was just kind of "done" for various industry reasons.


  I'm pretty sure that the K'tinga was just the result of needing a sexier model of the D7 for the benefit of the first motion picture.  The D7 from TOS was a really low quality model so they wanted to make one that was better looking for their opening shots.  Thus the K'tinga was born!

[Tyler]

posted on January 30th, 2011, 7:44 pm

Last edited by Tyler on January 30th, 2011, 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If the K't'inga was meant to be a high quality version of the D7, that would oppose the remastered episodes using a modernized D7 instead of a K't'inga.

[Tok`ra]

posted on January 30th, 2011, 8:14 pm

Last edited by Tok`ra on January 30th, 2011, 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Who cares about the size? The Constitution before the slightly size increasing refit had over 400 crew, and they don't have marines.

DS9 Tech manual says 800 + flight crew and marines, no other source gives another.

Marines = Security Redshirts.

And the DS9 tech manual is utterly unreliable, as I recall it heavily contradicts itself on many occasions.

Or to quote from Ex Astris's article linked by Boggz

Star Trek I The production of "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" necessitated a much more detailed model of a Klingon ship than the old one from TOS was. This new battlecruiser type named K't'inga may have been intended to be an upgraded version of the D7, just like the Enterprise in TMP

Plus, in many of the quality trek games the D7C is often referd to as the K'tinga (From Klingon Academy, to the SFC series).

While not cannon themselves, they are some of the better refrences for stuff in a way.

If the K't'inga was meant to be a high quality version of the D7, that would oppose the remastered episodes using a modernized D7 instead of a K't'inga.

Hardly, the K'tinga is to the D7 like the TMP connie refit is to the TOS connie.

And it'd fit too, since the klinks have a habit of using ships classes for prolonged periods of time, plus the way the studios seem to be utterly lazy in making new designs (IE: B'rel/K'vort are both identical other than the size renderd at thru CGI)

posted on January 30th, 2011, 8:19 pm

Marines = Security Redshirts.

And the DS9 tech manual is utterly unreliable, as I recall it heavily contradicts itself on many occasions.

Oh, I'm fully aware of how unreliable they can be (2 launchers on the Akira, my ass!), howerver there is no other number and it's probably far more reliable than any figure you'd come up with. The 'roughly 300' number you gave shows that; that numbers ridiculous for a Klingon warship.

Redshirts and security (and any combination of the 2) aren't marines...

posted on January 30th, 2011, 8:22 pm

Oh, I'm fully aware of how unreliable they can be (2 launchers on the Akira, my ass!), howerver there is no other number and it's probably far more reliable than any figure you'd come up with. The 'roughly 300' number you gave shows that; that numbers ridiculous for a Klingon warship.

Redshirts and security (and any combination of the 2) aren't marines...

redshirt =/= security but sercurity = redshirt.

And the redshirts fufil the same purpose as the Klink marines.

Klinks have mariens onboard for boarding/ground action.

Starfleet has security detachments (tho a smaller % of teh crew) for the same purpose.

posted on January 30th, 2011, 8:27 pm

Funny, I wasn't aware pilots, engineers and science officers were the equal of a Klingon marine... Marines are seperate from security; one is assigned to protect the ship, one attacks other ships, both can do the other job if they need a few extra guns.

Hardly, the K'tinga is to the D7 like the TMP connie refit is to the TOS connie.

And it'd fit too, since the klinks have a habit of using ships classes for prolonged periods of time, plus the way the studios seem to be utterly lazy in making new designs (IE: B'rel/K'vort are both identical other than the size renderd at thru CGI)

D7 isn't a K't'inga as the design has been out of use for decades by the time Voyager started (dialogue from Paris), and the use of an updated D7 model shows the K't'inga isn't a high-quality version of the D7.

Nothing implies they have any shared history aside from similar look.

posted on January 30th, 2011, 8:29 pm

If the K't'inga was meant to be a high quality version of the D7, that would oppose the remastered episodes using a modernized D7 instead of a K't'inga.

  Well I would find it hard to imagine a network allowing a "crappy" looking version to be used in the interest of appeasing fanboys anal-retentiveness.  That article explains the problem of the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribbleations" along with VOY's usage and such.  Sometimes things just have to be overlooked

posted on January 30th, 2011, 8:33 pm

The Voyager one was because they couldn't be bothered to make a CGI D7, and the Enterprise one was supposed to be a new D4 design that they were asked to add more windows to but didn't have time.

Deadlines are such a bitch... I got the same reasons from Memory Alpha.