I've always wondered about this...

posted on December 6th, 2009, 10:48 am

Ok, you know how the borg can adapt to different weapon frequencies, well what would happen if instead of using phasers against drones you were to use explosives like grenades, wouldn't that be the easiest way to kill them or am I missing something?  After awhile I kinda of ruled out bullets because I assume the borg have tough armor or something, but using an explosive also has the drawback of blowing up the ship it's used in too, course it doesn't matter too much if your boarding a borg ship, it's probably ok to blow up anything and everything.

posted on December 6th, 2009, 11:03 am

Shields are designed to repel projectiles and explosives, and to be honest I highly doubt the Federation would return to projectile weaponry.

posted on December 6th, 2009, 11:51 am

Well, the Federation did experiment with Projectile Weaponry but it was canceled too early when they came across a technical difficulty (like most other new technologies introduced for the purpose of one episode). I think the justification for the return was that they would provide a tactical advantage in situations where, for one reason or another, traditional energy weapons could not be used.

The only known instance of projectile weaponry used specifically on the Borg is during the First Contact holodeck scene where Picard uses a Holographic Thompson Machine Gun (with the safeties off making those bullets as real as any). They worked a treat for Picard but it's not really known whether the Borg would have adapted or not in a sustained fight.

posted on December 6th, 2009, 12:00 pm

The only known instance of projectile weaponry used specifically on the Borg is during the First Contact holodeck scene where Picard uses a Holographic Thompson Machine Gun (with the safeties off making those bullets as real as any). They worked a treat for Picard but it's not really known whether the Borg would have adapted or not in a sustained fight.

As I recall, Picard also went slightly crazy while killing the drone, Ensign Linch. Another example of why not to use projectile weapons, in the words of Worf: 'May provoke agressive tendancies

posted on December 6th, 2009, 3:45 pm

Remember that torpedoes are also projectile weaponry, and the Borg adapted quite nicely to these  . In fact, all Star Trek weaponry pretty much is projectile in nature - nadions are particles afterall.

[Kittamaru]

posted on December 6th, 2009, 7:23 pm

Last edited by Kittamaru on December 6th, 2009, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

the TR-116 Rifle. Designed to operate in environments where Phasers were not viable.

The project was scrapped with the advent of the Regenerative Phaser battery. Some were refit with micro-transporters to be used as snipers.

They ARE resurrected in some books, as they are effective vs borg. Utilizing high-density projectiles, they're able to penetrate the personal shields of borg drones.

And no, borg shields cannot "adapt" to projectiles to make them ineffective. THey an deflect light ones, but think about it - data and worf have BOTH beaten the piss out of borg drones with their bare hands.

Also, Photon and Quantum torpedoes ARE projectile in nature, but they utilize high energy explosions as their source of damage, not direct projectile penetration. If they were to make, say, a chemical explosive torpedo or even a simple Depleted Uranium shell, it'd likely penetrate borg adaptive shields. I dunno if it'd penetrate their armor though.

posted on December 6th, 2009, 7:50 pm

Lol, yeah, because for some reason the writers don't understand that there is no fundamental difference  . After all, the navigational defelctor can deflect big kinetic objects with ease - as can the shields. What's to stop Borg shields from doing the same, derrrr  . Direct projectile penetration if anything would be a hell of a lot weaker than directed energy weapons. Who said it had to make sense though 

posted on December 6th, 2009, 8:17 pm

I think the writers would explain it like in Stagate. The cinetic energy of bullets is too weak. So the shields not react with. Torpedos much faster and particle weapons have a own energy signature - they are nearly like poor energy so they react.

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on December 6th, 2009, 8:19 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on December 6th, 2009, 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If that were the case though, then every time debris hits a starship on screen, we should have seen it utterly destroyed or damaged ... and there are a lot of instances of asteroids, or just other "matter" explosions flinging debris at the ship in question.

EDIT: right off the top of my head I can think of three incidents of matter being flung at the Enterprise. Nemesis, this one episode of TNG where a prisoner bounces his ship of the shields of the Enterprise, and the innumerable shuttle explosions (or other vessel explosions) that right next to the poor Enterprise.

EDIT2: oh, and if it really were the case that all you'd need was a kinetic projectile, what about all those torps that supposedly turn out to be duds? Wouldn't those just go right through the shields then? 

posted on December 6th, 2009, 8:22 pm

See, that's why the Borg have tried to assimilate Earth in the future, when we have energy weapons they can adapt to, or travel in time, but not too far into the past, so that technology is still around.  Had they gone back in time to when the vikings were around, or even ancient Greece, they would have never been able to assimilate armies that soley used swords and spears and could chop them to borg bits.  Imagine if the 300 crowd had been beamed aboard a cube.

RESISTANCE IS MADNESS??!!  THIS IS SPARTA!!

posted on December 6th, 2009, 9:04 pm

Numbers is power, and Borg are never short of a few thousand cannon-fodder to increase their ranks. Swords and spears also mean close-rangeand arrows are useless against Transporters.

Any ancient army would have a better chance using a Phaser and trying to fire with the handle facing the Borg.

posted on December 6th, 2009, 9:30 pm

First I think the shields of drones not the same like the shields of ships. Ships have no need to contact with anything... without a starbase who seperate protocols are valid(many systems offline or run with less power...). Shuttle(same Shield/deflector/forcefield frequency...) and planet landing are similar. But drones have to touch anything for work. So the configuration is diffrent because it gives a need for other allowance settings. And dont forgot ship ramming by dominion worked through shields in at least one episode. And i think (correct me if false) the Scimitars Shilds still online when rammed by the Enterprise with low speed. And asteroids only relevant  by moving ship(most times much faster as a bullet). And they often have fear of colliding with debris n the shows. And a shuttle has much more mass as a bullet(mass counts to the formula of kinetic energy too)
OK one episode never can give a thing canon, because writers sometimes remove or impose restrictions of ships or technologies for storyline or dramaturgy reasons(or they have no idea of Star Trek >:( )

posted on December 6th, 2009, 9:35 pm

Tell that to King Leonidas as he does a massive Spartan-sized leap up into the air in slow motion, coming down with a spear going through the first Borg's neck, then does a spin, checks a Borg with his shield, causing it to fall down and get stabbed by someone else, then draws his sword, blocks a borg's arm while he thrusts upward into its chest.

Numbers is power

Psssh... Tell that to the Persian Army.

Borg are never short of a few thousand cannon-fodder to increase their ranks. Swords and spears also mean close-rangeand arrows are useless against Transporters.

Any ancient army would have a better chance using a Phaser and trying to fire with the handle facing the Borg.

Psssh.... Tell that to Worf as he chops a Borg's arm off.  Assimilate this!

posted on December 6th, 2009, 9:41 pm

Tell that to King Leonidas as he does a massive Spartan-sized leap up into the air in slow motion, coming down with a spear going through the first Borg's neck, then does a spin, checks a Borg with his shield, causing it to fall down and get stabbed by someone else, then draws his sword, blocks a borg's arm while he thrusts upward into its chest.

Then the Borg break out the Klingon kung fu...

Psssh... Tell that to the Persian Army.

Redshirts, every species has them...

Psssh.... Tell that to Worf as he chops a Borg's arm off.  Assimilate this!

That is Worf! Worf has no equal, Borg or otherwise.

posted on December 6th, 2009, 9:45 pm

Lol, very true Tyler.  It's one of those dumb inconsistencies we see in Trek, where all their powerful weapons don't work very long, but low tech weapons like Tommy guns and a Klingon short sword will.