Bop Versus A Warbird?

posted on November 19th, 2004, 8:46 pm

There are 4 types I know of.

1. Is the old original BoP basically real small, old, and can be destroyed by a few hits of anything.

2. The larger B'rel class was used in the 4th movie I think. A more formidable ship but is still fairly weak and old.

3. K'vort class, newer and a few of these can really take on anything. Pretty heavily armed for a ship of their size.

4. The biggest one of them all, the D'tai class. Only 12 were made and all lost in Dom war. Real powerful tho, something I've wanted to see.

posted on November 19th, 2004, 8:49 pm

Actually let me do it like this.

BoP, fixed upside down V shape design.

B'rel, Wings can go up from upside down V shape to land on planets.

K'vort, Fixed nearly flat wing design.

D'tai, K'vort design but about 5 times larger.

[Yaso Kuuhl]

posted on November 19th, 2004, 9:00 pm

Last edited by Yaso Kuuhl on November 19th, 2004, 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In this list, when was there ever a BoP? The first Klingon (actually Romulan, but that's another story) BoP to appear in the movies was Kruge's ship, which is the one from STIV an V too i think. Okay, I DO have more knowledge about the BoP, but I fail to acknowledge the existence of the smallest and largest types, regardless of what DITL says.

Let's see...

BoP (B'rel?) scout - STIII, IV, V, VI (refit): TMP era scout vessel, lightly armed. has landing capability. Length around 80 m. One of only a handful of ships that had cloak.
D-12 (still B'rel?) destroyer - based on the BoP, but built around the TNG era. (I think it is stated that the D-12 in ST:G is around 30 yrs old). All BoP type ships in TNG and DS9 were these. Length around 130 m.
K'Vort - Wings fixed upwards, no longer able to land on planets (just guessing here), cruiser class. About the same age as d-12 or newer.
D'tai - Really a K'vort, made larger to look more menacing in "Defector".

That's my list. Unfortunately in ST there are so many uncertainties that every fan has his own view of the ST universe. I sure have mine.

posted on November 20th, 2004, 1:12 am

D'tai - Really a K'vort, made larger to look more menacing in "Defector".

Thanks Yaso, that's what I pointed out earlier in this thread, but didn't remember the episode name.

Scaling up a BoP model to that size is lunacy anyway because the engineering section could hold like 20 Sovereign warp cores (giant rectangular box, think about it). In my opinion one of the biggest mistakes the TNG production crew ever made.

[PREATOR DEFIANT]

posted on November 20th, 2004, 9:07 am

Last edited by PREATOR DEFIANT on November 20th, 2004, 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think they just made everything larger Cool, just made the warp core the size of a K'vorts times how many times the D'tai is larger.

Actually I think a B'rel is the same as a K'vort they are the same size but 2 differant classes of ships. This is a huge screw up by the designers as they have 2 names for the same class of ship. Optec may wanna fix that. The BoP is 2 classes called the D-4 scout and D-13 destroyer. The D-4 is an extremely old ship and the D-13 is the ship you see flying around in the Klingon fleet everywhere.

The D-4 dosen't have movable wings but the D-13 does.

D-4 = Scout BoP - decomissioned

D-13 = Standard BoP

B'rel = K'vort - Not the small D-13 like in FO

D'tai = Huge ass BoP - all destroyed

posted on November 20th, 2004, 12:00 pm

okay damnit here is the truth:
a klingon bird of prey as seen in star trek III is the same model sa the one in generations the 50 year old defective cloaking d-12 class BOP.
the kvort are an alternate timeline ship only seen in the greatest TNG episode Yesterdays Enterprise. The next time we see large birds of prey they are the br'el class and 2 disable a galaxy class ship and then the idiot ferengi take over the ent. later in DS9 the bops such as the rotarran are refered to as just that birds of prey so the casual bop is like a d-15? or something and the kvort shuld be renamed tp the b'rel. Whew.........

[Yaso Kuuhl]

posted on November 20th, 2004, 1:36 pm

Last edited by Yaso Kuuhl on November 20th, 2004, 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Now I'm confused.

I know of two uses for the model:
1) Small. Wings can move, ship can land. See movies 3&4. Also used in movies 5&6 (wrongly, as the BoP was not a Klingon design originally). Later used further in DS9 and such to depict a maneuverable destroyer.
2) Large. TNG messed up ship sizes on a daily basis. But some of the shots show BoPs with clearly the wingspan of a Vor'cha or larger. Not possible this is the same ship as above (though it might look larger than it is). They are also always shown with their wings up, so I suppose they no longer have the ability to move them.

I don't really know
1) what the ship in Generations was, but she WAS destroyed with one Photon burst, so I'm assuming destroyer class rather than cruiser.
2) what the ships in the episode with the Ferengi (TNG: "Rascals"?) were
3) why I can't remember any 'large' type BoPs in DS9?! Maybe all the TNG BoPs really were 'small' ones?

I'll go looking for source pics now.

EDIT: Read THIS.

posted on November 20th, 2004, 10:06 pm

Ok Yasu, kvort is way off. Just follow my example because i'm right.

Most of the ships in TNG are B'rel/V'vorts.

In DS9 they used alot of reg BoPs or D-13s.

The ship seen in STIII I think was an early version or actually a D-13.

posted on November 22nd, 2004, 2:48 am

I tend to agree with ex-astris-scientia actually. The idea of a bigger B'rel with better weaponry and shields (the K'vort) makes sense to me as far as the game is concerned, so I don't think anything needs to be changed.

posted on November 22nd, 2004, 4:10 am

But in the game the B'rel is the smaller ship...so what youy just said is it does need to be changed.

posted on November 22nd, 2004, 5:46 am

wow, all this over a stupid klingon bird of prey?

posted on November 22nd, 2004, 9:01 am

Wow, bob just spammed again?

[Smoerebroed]

posted on November 22nd, 2004, 10:56 am

Last edited by Smoerebroed on November 22nd, 2004, 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

The good 'ol BoP discussion finally. I like it; Back to Saber/Sabre -> A BoP can cloak!!! Simply cloak sneak behind decloak fire and fly away. The only time it isn't going to work is, when the Klingons where at SpaceDonalds before and ordered SuperSize Quarter-pounders with Takelarian cheese and a SuperSize space-o-cola.

[coolhandab]

posted on November 22nd, 2004, 6:15 pm

Last edited by coolhandab on November 22nd, 2004, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No Praetor I meant I like the K'vort being a larger B'rel. In the end I guess the names aren't important though, I really like the concept of the older smaller weaker bird of prey that's cheap augmented with a bigger newer one that's more expensive.

Now we just need to get them grouped into fighter strike squadrons ...

posted on November 23rd, 2004, 5:37 am

Uh smoerebroed, you can't use hit and run tactics effectively on ships armed with Phasers, you'll get killed real quick.

And cool, the K'vort and B'rel are the SAME ship. It wouldn't be right to have a small B'rel.