I Quit...

posted on June 5th, 2010, 11:58 pm

with borg dificulties to detect cloak, in my opinion its not an exploit if you dont use it all the time...

Agreed, but most seem to consider at as an exploit since the devs wanted it to be for combat only. I think 3.1.2 should have been tested more before being released.
Dodecs are another 3.1.2 problem, I think they should've been delayed until 3.1.3 (earlier I had a game against Borg_com, he decided to make int. dodes since I had a huge fleet that could kill him, I lost a ship every time I attacked because when I retreated damaged ships they lost engines and other subsystems.)

If you can't resist using force-fire cloak detect, just don't build EM Scubes. I don't build them anymore since they are utterly worthless unless you really, really need to kill Kbeajqs (other cloaking ships will most likely lose a few subsystems while cloaking) and to use them force-firing on Assim matrix would be using an exploit (before I knew it was an exploit I would park an EM Scube at base and force-fire the whole match to prevent scouting of my base.) Now I just build Vinc/Relay Dodecs for my base and expansions as cloak detect.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:02 am

the exploit is fixed in 3.1.3, so these problems shouldn't occur once its released. The borg will get an active cloak detection later in the techtree too

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:03 am

earlier I had a game against Borg_com, he decided to make int. dodes since I had a huge fleet that could kill him, I lost a ship every time I attacked because when I retreated damaged ships they lost engines and other subsystems..

borg_com has agreed to change his strat and do a different borg build. this information comes from his clan leader lupus in a recently closed thread.

If you can't resist using force-fire cloak detect, just don't build EM Scubes. I don't build them anymore since they are utterly worthless unless you really, really need to kill Kbeajqs (other cloaking ships will most likely lose a few subsystems while cloaking)

i disagree, em scube is amazing when used properly. keep one in your fleet, inexperienced players will decloak, your em scube is fast and has a weapon with 100% hit chance so is likely to score a hit while they are cloaking, this will give u sight on ALL nearby ships. allowing you to crush their unshielded hulls. they will then lose many ships before they can decloak and fight. experienced players will see the em scube and you will have basically prevented them from using cloak to escape. they will have to use another technique. u have decided something about the battle then.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:05 am

Agreed, but most seem to consider at as an exploit since the devs wanted it to be for combat only. I think 3.1.2 should have been tested more before being released.
Dodecs are another 3.1.2 problem, I think they should've been delayed until 3.1.3 (earlier I had a game against Borg_com, he decided to make int. dodes since I had a huge fleet that could kill him, I lost a ship every time I attacked because when I retreated damaged ships they lost engines and other subsystems.)

If you can't resist using force-fire cloak detect, just don't build EM Scubes. I don't build them anymore since they are utterly worthless unless you really, really need to kill Kbeajqs (other cloaking ships will most likely lose a few subsystems while cloaking) and to use them force-firing on Assim matrix would be using an exploit (before I knew it was an exploit I would park an EM Scube at base and force-fire the whole match to prevent scouting of my base.) Now I just build Vinc/Relay Dodecs for my base and expansions as cloak detect.

So what have you got to say for Klingons then? Any complaints there? Or what about Dominion cloak detect  :whistling: . This isn't a Borg problem (in fact they have decent detect compared to several factions), this is a "cloak detection was partially incomplete" problem . EM Scubes are far from useless by any possible definition.

I don't get how you can even say that you didn't know it was an exploit - if something says in the tooltip that it decloaks when in combat, do you think it's just suddenly clever to find some way to use it on your own units?  :blink: . Should be self evident.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:08 am

cheers for the heads up i learn somthing new everyday

Oh and nuke looking forward to tomorrow(or today) so i can have a 1v1 with ya

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:14 am

I never said the other races had good cloak detect.

As far as EM Scube exploit: I didn't pay attention to the tooltip and just heard from on these forums about it (which until recently had only one post I saw that called it an exploit, with other posts saying to use it.) It actually does seem more like just being clever to get something, which works only with weapons firing, work by firing on yourself.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:23 am

The first posts discussing it were almost immediately outed as an exploit. The type of clever you are talking about is the the sort that is in play for using Intelligence Center Sabotage on Cubes or using the replaceweapon on the Worker Ship to make it invincible in 3.0.7. Did you ever ask yourself why a vessel would not constantly emit the detection ability if it could just be used on your own units in force fire?

You might also care to notice that the EM Scube does not take extra damage from ranged passives - that alone should tell you something about its use

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:37 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on June 6th, 2010, 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

I must've never seen the first posts about it. What thread were they in?

I didn't think cloak detection would be that much of a problem; the things you mentioned would provide an extreme, unfair advantage that would make it near impossible for the opponent to win. This is just something that cloak detects if you're willing to hurt your own ships, an advantage, but not something that horribly destroys the balance of power. It wouldn't even take the Klingons and Romulans down to the level of the Dominion in terms of harassment. A good player also should target EM Scubes, they can't regenerate very fast can they?

You can't constantly force fire, even on borg ships, even the Assim matrix can take damage over time if you haven't upgraded it and don't stop to let it repair.

Intrepid-killer? Or I could just tell my ships to come back to base and repair. I prefer the second option.

EDIT:some elaboration.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:48 am

im pretty sure an em scube could not kill a full regen sphere in the time it takes to get to the enemy base.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:49 am

Yours' and Myles' were the first posts on the subject, and both were answered immediately with the exploit explanation. It's not my fault if you are selectively reading, but please don't tell me that you saw the first posts on the subject but neglected to read the portions that informed everybody it was a bug. It's hard to imagine you missed something when you responded to it even  :sweatdrop: .

You do not need to rely on exploits to win. If anyone is that petty that they must destroy that last scout to feel satiated, they should go beat up some new players to let the ego fly in 3.1.2  :whistling: . Bugs will always be present, and sometimes they have a game play effect. I've had people come to me whining that they used the Qaw'Duj's Polaron Field because the Klingons are too weak and they need something to up their strength. Right.

It's already been discussed that new cloak detection will be given for the Borg and Klingons, now it's up to YOU to refrain from using exploits or trying to explain why they are acceptable. And yes, it does horribly destroy balance. No other faction gets a cloak detect that strong and pervasive, and there is a reason for that. When people agreed to stop spamming, or to stop using Bug ram, or to stop using Intel Center on Borg, did you feel it was right to keep using it? You are making excuses for why you need to use this exploit, which is a darn shame. The fact that people need to be told over and over again that stuff will be fixed and that why they shouldn't use an exploit is unnecessary.

I don't know what you mean by

Intrepid-killer? Or I could just tell my ships to come back to base and repair. I prefer the second option.

EDIT:some elaboration.

The Intrepid doesn't have any passive against Scubes.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 1:34 am

Yeah I remember what a campaign it was to have ramming considered a cheat/ bug (ha love that pun!  )

posted on June 6th, 2010, 2:09 am

The type of clever you are talking about is the the sort that is in play for using Intelligence Center Sabotage on Cubes

That one still bugs me.  Means that if I use the sleeper agent multiple times, and I've got a fleet inbound, but one of those agents ended up on a cube, I can't press sabotage, because people will throw a fit.

It's not like you can choose what gets the agent anyway.  75% of the sleeper agents I ever deploy end up on mining stations and shipyards, unable to do anything beyond provide line of sight that I likely already had from a cloaked talon.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:02 pm

hopefully soon sabotage wont work on borg ships. but will still work on non borg so that pushing sabotage when spies are on borg ships will not be a problem.

btw agents landing on structures is fantastic news. it gives u permanent line of sight on the enemy base. they cant get rid of the agent, ever. the only way would be to decom and rebuild which costs them res. so if u get a spy in an enemy base u can remove your scout and have it follow some ships or even sit around points of the map watching for stuff.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:06 pm

Sabotage should cause minor disruptions to a Borg ship, just enough to inconvinience it for a while.

Isn't the spy still temporary on stations? I find spies on stations useful for attacking the base if they're on the Starbase.

posted on June 6th, 2010, 12:08 pm

i thought spies are permanent on bases. plenty of places to hide lol. spy on starbase is useful for collapsing its shields at attack time lol.