Uninviting Community

[cbosdell]

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 3:23 am

Last edited by cbosdell on May 2nd, 2011, 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

I used to play FO all the time in 2008-2009 so I'm sure some of you at least will remember me.  With the recent 3.2.0 I decided to jump back in.  I've played a few instant action and really enjoyed it. 

Tonight I tried to play a game so I signed onto Tunngle.  Two games were up, one launched with two players and the other open with five in it.  Naturally I join that game.  I asked (out of respect) if it was full but was floored by the answer which was "yes it's full".

I seem to remember this community being a bit more inviting than this.  I'm just disappointed.

I brought this up in the Tunngle chat room and was treated to insults such as:

"11:21:52 PM Primigenia : dude
11:21:56 PM Primigenia : go see a therapist"

Maybe I'll try again at a different time of day but my point is if I was a new player I would probably uninstall FO and never bother again.  That's not a good thing for the community to be so unwelcoming.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 3:36 am

Well to be fair you were all acting very immature

But you have to realize that for many people this is late night/ early morning. By that time, their patience is wearing thin and such. Try going on during earlier hours, and you'll find that everyone ois far more curteous and pesonable

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 3:42 am

Well, that's just extremely disappointing...  :(

Unfortunately it appears there will always be some less welcoming individuals in the ever-growing community. As you recall, when we started off, the community was small, and people had to be friendly with each other or risk being ostracized by the community at large.

Now however, people have the luxury (if you can call it that) to be rude (at any time of day ^^ ), since there are many more players, and there is now even room to be a relative unknown. Likewise, the growth of the community has resulted in more perceived competitiveness, and there are plenty of games that are 'opened' in this spirit. I don't think this latter part is an issue, since people ought to be able to choose who they play with, but I do believe that the rudeness is.

I put this out as a message to those who really are unwelcoming to new members: we are a small community still, we need to respect all the players outwardly, even if some of us don't inwardly. It drives people away when you curse them out, insult them, or make them feel welcome. It also does a grave disservice to the people who started this mod, as they have to put up with so much crap over the years to build Fleet Ops to its current standard. It would be horrific if their work were to be associated with those few who are unkind.

It's extremely unfortunate that this will likely fall on deaf ears, but I will just say that those who partake in this behavior are in no small part making it harder to continue the growth of the community from its reputation as a fun one. That is a very big deal.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 3:45 am

Out of context quote designed to make you look like victim? hmmm...
Here's the entire conversation:

21:14:03 cbosdell : note to self: some people in this community are quite rude
21:14:06 cbosdell : -- ^^
21:14:18 yandonman : ?
21:14:27 thisisredshirt : huh?
21:14:45 thisisredshirt : well, yeah, but Acheron isn't one of them
21:14:50 cbosdell : lol i was bascailly told to peace out by archeron just now
21:14:56 thisisredshirt : dude you asked
21:14:58 cbosdell : you guys shouldn't be so exclusive with your community
21:14:59 cbosdell : yeah
21:15:02 cbosdell : but that was a rude response
21:15:02 thisisredshirt : and you left on your own
21:15:08 cbosdell : because i wasn't wanted
21:15:10 thisisredshirt : how?
21:15:18 cbosdell : a nice response would have been "sorry mate it's full"
21:15:19 cbosdell : not just
21:15:21 thisisredshirt : what, should he have said "I want you"?
21:15:24 cbosdell : "it's full"
21:15:30 cbosdell : that's kinda a big f u
21:15:42 thisisredshirt : only if you add in the voice
21:15:49 thisisredshirt : and this is the internet, so that's stupid
21:15:57 cbosdell : well
21:16:00 thisisredshirt : you can't tell how he was saying it
21:16:01 cbosdell : considering the userbase of this game
21:16:10 cbosdell : you guys should be more inviting of players
21:16:17 cbosdell : since it's not exactly a growing amount
21:16:26 Nebula_Class_FTW> the userbase has been growing
21:16:30 thisisredshirt : look, if you have your mind made up, I can't change it.
21:16:35 thisisredshirt : but you're quite wrong.
21:16:41 cbosdell : uh huh
21:16:47 cbosdell : looks the same userwise as it was two years ago
21:16:48 thisisredshirt : my pint.
21:16:49 cbosdell : when i used to play
21:16:50 Nebula_Class_FTW> onlyprblem is that we lose ppl with the unbalancedness and the damn needing A2
21:16:52 thisisredshirt : *point
21:17:04 Nebula_Class_FTW> many new players came about afer 3.1
21:17:04 cbosdell : and everyone joining one game
21:17:09 cbosdell : and telling other people it's full
21:17:10 cbosdell : too exclusive
21:17:11 Nebula_Class_FTW> they trickle in betwen patches
21:17:19 Nebula_Class_FTW> and then several come in each patch
21:17:19 cbosdell : i was just being polite.  i didn't expect to get that answer.
21:17:34 thisisredshirt : you're being insensitive and judgemental.
21:17:46 cbosdell : no
21:17:48 cbosdell : i'm just making a point
21:17:49 thisisredshirt : adding intentions that aren't self-evident.
21:18:00 cbosdell : there's like 11 people in this room
21:18:08 cbosdell : 2in their own game
21:18:09 cbosdell : leaving 9
21:18:18 cbosdell : 6 others join a game
21:18:26 cbosdell : kinda uninviting to others
21:18:45 Nebula_Class_FTW> 11 ppl in this room =/= 11 people playing fo
21:18:47 cbosdell : guess i'm not cool enough for that exclusive group
21:18:50 cbosdell : exactly
21:18:51 cbosdell : my point
21:18:59 Nebula_Class_FTW> no its not
21:19:03 Nebula_Class_FTW> Im saying theye afk
21:19:06 cbosdell : but you have to be in this room to be online with fo via tungle
21:19:07 cbosdell : yeah
21:19:08 cbosdell : meaning
21:19:14 cbosdell : 2 in a game already started
21:19:15 cbosdell : leaving 9
21:19:19 cbosdell : minus 6 in that game
21:19:25 cbosdell : leavingme and 2 people that are afk
21:19:28 cbosdell : basically a big f u to me
21:21:48 cbosdell : i'm posting about this in the forums
21:21:49 Primigenia : lol
21:21:51 Primigenia : dude
21:21:55 Primigenia : go see a therapist
21:21:58 cbosdell : really sad to see how unwelcoming this place has become
21:22:05 cbosdell : thanks Primigenia
21:22:10 cbosdell : i'll be sure to mention your advice in my thread
21:26:53 Primigenia : you do that
21:28:16 cbosdell : Yeah but they were just starting a game and basically told me I wasn't welcome.
21:28:59 cbosdell : That's never happened to me before.  Doesn't make much sense but what do I know lol.
21:30:24 Primigenia : I'm sure the community will shed tears at the sight of you up on your cross
21:30:54 cbosdell : Wow.  Aren't you mature Primigenia.
21:31:05 cbosdell : Feeling good about yourself?  Mocking someone online?  Good job.
21:32:18 Primigenia : I'm not so self-loathing as to get off on insulting people through a computer screen
21:32:42 cbosdell : Maybe it was a rematch but then they should've said something like "yeah rematch...sorry"
21:32:44 cbosdell : or something polite
21:34:58 cbosdell : Yeah, you're right Charybde.
21:35:14 cbosdell : Thank you for taking the time to type something intelligent.  I appreciate it.
21:35:41 cbosdell : Tonight just isn't the attitude of the community that I remember.  Oh well.
21:37:24 Nebula_Class_FTW> Obama speaking now
21:37:34 Nebula_Class_FTW> about Osama
21:38:30 Nebula_Class_FTW> also, sometimes people want only a 3v3
21:38:34 Nebula_Class_FTW> or only  2v2
21:38:42 Nebula_Class_FTW> hence "hey dont come in our game"
21:39:13 Nebula_Class_FTW> altho in ur case, I can totally see people being like "fuck you", just based on what youve said now
21:39:37 Nebula_Class_FTW> that's what Ithink about it cbosdell

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 3:49 am

I naturally wasn't happy about being treated rudely.  Perhaps I should have just posted this in here and not tried to start a discussion in the chat room but still I stand by my point.  Thank you everyone for the replies.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 3:52 am

To elaborate (and I said something similar to this in tunngle after that block, but feel like restating it here): I think that politeness should be optional, and that you should not get upset about a lack of politeness. Rudeness is not always (and quite possibly often not) intended to be mean. Also, some people don't like observers due to lag issues, and they may not want to have to find yet another person after u join, or they may just prefer a certain number of players.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 3:56 am

Oh my, seems I walked into a bit of a deathtrap 

I think that my block is still relevant, as I have heard complaints before (as well as witnessed somewhat insensitive remarks to new fellows): I just hope they remain rare incidents.

Well, all I can say for this thread is, keep it polite please 

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 4:00 am

First off, I'm not an asshole. I'm blunt and direct, and I see little point in glossing things over with pretty words and half-truths. I call it as I see it, and I see a little boy whining because he wasn't properly coddled.

Consider that many games are 2v2 or 3v3, and through some combination of players not wanting a game at that moment, and some players wanting a completely lagless or more balanced game, a game may be considered full despite having less than eight slots filled. You also have to realize that between players not paying attention, arguing over how to balance teams, and the tendency of many players to babble at length about any given subject, (ahem, Charybde, Nuke) by the time a game is set up and about to go, people don't really want to deal with starting over the whole process to include another player.

Consider also that you have the ability to host your own game, and advertise said game in the Tunngle lobby. Communication is a two-way street, so it might help to say, "Hey, I haven't played in a while, I'd like to get a 1v1 going with someone."

Whether or not the host could have explained the situation in longer and more polite terms, you have no room to complain when you throw a fit and accuse the entire community of being rude simply because you weren't able to play in the first game you joined.

The therapist comment was in regard to how personally you took the incident, and as for your "ooh tough guy on the Internet comment", if you behave with such fragility and impatience with others in real life, you're not going to be making any friends.

Seriously, try hosting a game and asking someone to join you for a 1v1. Be patient, and you'll get your game.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 4:04 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on May 2nd, 2011, 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's no deathtrap, it's just kind of a grey area. More like a foggy minefield (with huge anti-tank mines) really, so stick to the narrow path and you'll be fine.

To elaborate further: and sometimes the players have already asked someone else to be part of their game. To accept another player would be denying a player their spot in line basically (which would be pretty rude.) Just try to talk to the players on teamspeak about joining to secure a spot.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 4:06 am

I was hoping for a 2v2 or 3v3 as my first game.  That way I can use what I remember from when I used to play and learn from my teammate(s).  That's not going to happen with me asking in the lobby for one.  I think tact is especially important in this community when you host a game.  If I was someone else I would've simply uninstalled FO instead of start a discussion here about it.  I may not have reacted in the most positive way in the lobby but I do believe my point stands.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 4:11 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on May 2nd, 2011, 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Actually, asking in lobby if there are any games you can join, or asking in lobby for players to join your game is quite good.
I think most other people would simply get to know the community before deciding to uninstall that which they had to either pirate A2 or actually find a legal copy of A2 to get.
Perhaps the community was more polite back then when people had to use Wippien (and thus had to find specific people, rather than join a lobby), but we're still pretty nice.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 4:14 am

OK, look at it this way. A lot of people are practicing for a tournament right now. Competition is getting fierce. To be completely blunt, a lot of players aren't looking to play an unbalanced game with someone on their team who isn't up to date with playing. Is that an incredibly friendly attitude? No, but it's realistic.

As I said, try a 1 v 1. If you must have a team game, get on Tunngle (or better, TS) and say "Hey, I haven't played in a long time, and I'd like a team game to get back up to par; would anyone be up for that?"

You might not get a game right away, but chances are someone will be willing to play with you after the game they're about to start.

And again, about the host of that game that set this all off: Most people use Teamspeak. They're used to talking, and being very shorthand with typing. It's not meant to be rude, it's meant to convey information in a clear and concise manner so they can get on with that oh-so-addictive blowing crap up. Remember, it's hard to read emotion/inflection through text, so if someone is trying to be rude, they'll use words that make it clear theyre trying to be rude. If it's not blatantly (as you said) "f u", it's probably not meant to come across that way.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 4:19 am

Hey, it's cbosdell!!!

I have to agree about using teamspeak, as it's a far better form of communication and you can actually hear intonation.  I wasn't there for this specific instance, but I think we can all agree that it's easy to misread type like Primi is saying.

I know it's not easy, but perhaps we can all go, "Hey, we started on the wrong foot.  Let's fix that" and then move on.  I know that's a little simplistic, but we all want the same thing:  To play video games and have fun.  Teamspeak is where most of the communication goes down, and it's definitely helpful.

Glad to have you back, cbosdell.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 4:29 am

cbosdell, it sounds like you were looking for an excuse to say they were being rude.  People who host games have to consider all 6 people or however many there are.  If you ask a yes or no question, it is perfectly reasonable for somebody to give you a yes or no answer.

That being said, the next step is to ask, "Do you mind if I observe?" to which they will almost certainly say "okay"

Perhaps he was a little bit rude, but you need to accept the rest of the conversation for what it is: you blew the issue out of proportion.  There is nothing wrong with 6 people starting a 6-man game, why should they be expected to break into smaller groups?  We do want new people but if you are so offended by this situation that you want to leave the community, then I think it's clear that having you in the community would decrease our overall politeness level.

If you want to see a closed-minded gaming community, go play Sins of a Solar Empire  :D  Awesome game, but the online players are assholes.  After my first game disconnected the maker literally created one called, "4v4 rematch no noobs."  When I joined it, he cancelled the game and started one called "4v4 rematch NO NOOBS!"  When I joined the 4th remake, he went "Uhh, Tryptic..."  And I told him if he wanted me to leave the game he had to stop acting like a 3-year-old and tell me to my face.  He banned me instead  :lol:

Kind of puts Fleet Ops in perspective.  We are not mean people here, compared to the vast majority of the internet.  Well, except maybe myles.

posted on May 2nd, 2011, 4:47 am

I have nearly posted about 5 times in this topic, and every time I have hit refresh.  I do that often when wanting to post on topics, I write out my opinions and or what i want to say, and then I ask myself: is this going to be helpful to the thread/community, or unhelpful. 

Many times I hit refresh instead of posting.  I feel that this is one of those times, everyone has opinions on this issue, and many peoples tempers seem to be running high.  I would suggest that everyone write out their feelings, that way they can get it out, and then refresh, so as not to create anymore harm then needed.

I believe that at this point we need to understand that sometimes we forget to be polite, and sometimes people can be on short threads due to various issues.  But we need to try to show respect, and be welcoming to new members.

Right now however, I believe that anymore posting in this thread will do more harm then good.  As Mal said, we need to start over.  Whatever occurred tonight needs to be put in the past.  Just because you get beat up in a fleet ops game early on doesn't mean you give up, theres always a chance to come back for the win as there is now.

And with that, Id like to request this thread be locked, I think everyone has said everything that is needed to be said.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otm4RusESNU&feature=related[/youtube]