Is cloaked beaming a bug?

posted on July 25th, 2010, 11:20 pm

Aha!
Tyler, I watched the episode, thanks a lot!
So from what we see there the targets position is to be known exactly. That pretty much explains why the captain could be beamed while unter cloak.

Ergo it's possible to beam someone under cloak, if you have his exact target destination or position. If not, which is the case in FO most of the time (except a spy is onboard) I still say its logical derivable that beaming while cloaked is impossible.

Any canon sources that shows beaming under cloak without any helping toys known?

posted on July 26th, 2010, 2:29 am

... because clearly communicators don't serve the same purpose . Case solved 

posted on July 26th, 2010, 3:46 am

I still think beaming to an unfriendly, moving, fully cloaked ship in combat situations makes little sense...especially if the troops come from a mining station etc... 

posted on July 26th, 2010, 4:26 am

Aha!
Tyler, I watched the episode, thanks a lot!
So from what we see there the targets position is to be known exactly. That pretty much explains why the captain could be beamed while unter cloak.

Ergo it's possible to beam someone under cloak, if you have his exact target destination or position. If not, which is the case in FO most of the time (except a spy is onboard) I still say its logical derivable that beaming while cloaked is impossible.

Any canon sources that shows beaming under cloak without any helping toys known?

Reunification.

The BoPs, in cloaked orbit of Romulus, beamed Picard and Data down to the surface without getting waxed by the Romulan Navy...aka, without dropping cloak.

posted on July 26th, 2010, 4:53 am

I still think beaming to an unfriendly, moving, fully cloaked ship in combat situations makes little sense...especially if the troops come from a mining station etc... 

Mining stations in what is clearly hostile territory will still have security forces for the Feds and Romulans.  And do you think a silly little thing like cloak is going to bother the Borg?   Or keep the Klingons or Jem'Hadar from a good battle?

As far as gameplay is concerned, this really is making a mountain out of a mole hill.  I've had this happen to me numerous times, and have never lost a single combat ship.  I have lost a few scouts, though. 

Seriously.  It's not a big deal, is plausible in Trek, and you're all big boys now.   I'm sure you'll be able to handle someone trying to board your ship when you drop your shields to cloak.

posted on July 26th, 2010, 7:01 am

It makes perfect sense to me that you can transport to a moving target as communicators are basically homing beacons. We've seen the transporter successfully beam someone falling in mid air so why cant it lock onto a moving target?

posted on July 26th, 2010, 8:41 am

Another example of the ability to beam through cloak is when Data wanted to give Picard the emergency transporter when he was captured on the Scimitar in STX.

posted on July 26th, 2010, 4:41 pm

Reunification.

The BoPs, in cloaked orbit of Romulus, beamed Picard and Data down to the surface without getting waxed by the Romulan Navy...aka, without dropping cloak.

Sure. But this is beaming someone off a cloaked ship, which i believe to be absolutely possible. The target area is perfectly known in that episode. Sorry my latest post did not include all necessary information. The only open question is, if it was possible to beam onto a cloaked ship if you have no beacon or anything like that on it. Which I doubt.

It makes perfect sense to me that you can transport to a moving target as communicators are basically homing beacons. We've seen the transporter successfully beam someone falling in mid air so why cant it lock onto a moving target?

I agree that moving targets are not a problem at all. But t would be interesting if there was any evidence to my above question.

Another example of the ability to beam through cloak is when Data wanted to give Picard the emergency transporter when he was captured on the Scimitar in STX.

Another excellent example where beaming with helping tools was established.

you're all big boys now.   I'm sure you'll be able to handle someone trying to board your ship when you drop your shields to cloak.

Hehe, the topic has been in the wrong section all time. It's title suggests it should be technical stuff and yeah, you are right, this is not even worth discussing it in context of balancing. IMO this is a Star Trek discussion.

posted on July 26th, 2010, 6:01 pm

I agree that one shouldn't beam on a moving, unknown target, your crewmen could end up in a wall, or a torpedo, or the warpcore.
In the book to "Way of the warrior" Cassidy Yates holds back Klingon troops with her freighter just by changing the course(or sth like that, been a long time since I read it). They end up in space because of that. They had a BoP and she had a freighter. That part is not shown, though, but I think it was part actually of the script. So, leaving aside that beaming itself is dangerous, beaming on a moving target seems even more dangerous, beaming on a moving, cloaked target seems suicide to me.

posted on July 26th, 2010, 8:02 pm

Were there any klingons on the frieghter to start with? That is our point.

Besides, books do not equal canon, and FO may be mostly Star Trek, but the Devs can have whatever they want happen in "their" universe, which is subtely different from Star Trek (post middle of voyager somewhere obviously)

posted on July 26th, 2010, 8:39 pm

What people are forgetting is that you're not beaming onto a moving, unknown target.

Crews are beaming onto a ship that is in the process of cloaking, so there is a window to beam crew over while the shields are down and the ship is still visible.  At that point, combadges can be used to act as a beacon as to where to beam.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if it changed, but I don't see it as a bug or exploit, or anything like that.  So if someone does it to you, just move your ships the other way and life will be good.

posted on July 26th, 2010, 9:09 pm

Crews are beaming onto a ship that is in the process of cloaking, so there is a window to beam crew over while the shields are down and the ship is still visible.  At that point, combadges can be used to act as a beacon as to where to beam.

Most often one detects a scout, which is cloaked. Everyone who gets the chance will then call one own ship and board it. In that case, there surely was no beacon on the scout, and i think if you don't disturb the cloaking fields by e.g. firing at least one shot at the cloak field you won't be able to transport even a beacon there.

I'd say boarding a cloaking ship or a ship with a spy, probe, grav-mine or whatever on it, should be possible, but not boarding a cloaked vessel. Normally when detecting a cloaked vessel without breaking the cloak in the process (meaning I'm talking about tachyon scans, graviton scans, but not e.g. anti proton beams, manual targeting,...) you shouldn't be even able to determine anything but mass and warp signature. This means normally you can't determine the exact ship's build or even it's orientation, hence beaming onto it will most likely fail, and if not to the dissipation of the transport beam then to the unfortunate risk of beaming into the AM containment or a wall.

posted on July 26th, 2010, 11:07 pm

Mal, You assume of course that the first people who board are not immediately vaporized. 

Anyways, we all have our opinions and as you insinuated, I doubt we will see any changes.

posted on July 26th, 2010, 11:33 pm

Mal, You assume of course that the first people who board are not immediately vaporized.  

in most of the dominion war the lazors didnt vapourise people much. maybe it was too expensive to recharge the lazors if redshirts went around vapourising everything. so perhaps they turned them to lower kill setting.

so this leaves comm badge unharmed

only 1 redshirt has to survive (redshirts survive? ha!) to tap his badge

posted on July 27th, 2010, 12:06 am

And of course the ship cannot be jamming transmissions ala Nemesis...