Two Minor Changes

posted on January 17th, 2010, 2:15 pm

Scientists can gain honor in different ways to warriors by creating new ships and weapons for the Empire, miners can't through mindless menial labor.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 2:34 pm

That's absolutely believable, but I never saw a klingon scientist being thanked for inventing the Negh'Var design so that Gowron could outgun many other single ship designs of other races by far 
Just kidding. Of course you're right by saying that.

May be I'm just too fixed on the idea that if you give a game some intents (even if it's "just" a name) which are or would be very cruel in reality you also have to confront and conflict the players with it in some ways (in fact, because they assimilate individuals and entire worlds I barely play Borg because I'm thinking that it's worse than death). The fact that it's just a game is no excuse for a game that doesn't make people think over what they are doing in it.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 3:04 pm

Well, it's not a role playing game, my friend!   If you're that worried by it, just think about how every time you click launch, you're going to be sending thousands upon thousands to their death, and every single one of those virtual lives will stain your guilty hands forever!

Or, you know...you could just see that it's a simple name change.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 3:08 pm

Well come to think of it, all of the species' have penal colonies for mining.

Romulans - Use Remans to mine on Remus and Prisoners on various other planets

Dominion - P.O.W's mainly + Low rank Jem'Hadar

Federation - EMH MK1's (Replaced by the MK2) + Federation convicts

Klingon - P.O.W's + KE Convicts + Some Klingons

Borg - Could be argued as prisoners of assimilation, therefore they're essentially working for the Collective

Anyway, point being, if you name one Species' Mining Colony; a Penal Colony, I for one will not be pleased, as I'd feel you'd have to classify them all as Penal Colonies in one form or another.

The federation use holograms for this not convicts, as seen in a voyager episode.

[Tyler]

posted on January 17th, 2010, 3:23 pm

Last edited by Tyler on January 17th, 2010, 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well come to think of it, all of the species' have penal colonies for mining.

Romulans - Use Remans to mine on Remus and Prisoners on various other planets

Dominion - P.O.W's mainly + Low rank Jem'Hadar

Federation - EMH MK1's (Replaced by the MK2) + Federation convicts

Klingon - P.O.W's + KE Convicts + Some Klingons

Borg - Could be argued as prisoners of assimilation, therefore they're essentially working for the Collective

Anyway, point being, if you name one Species' Mining Colony; a Penal Colony, I for one will not be pleased, as I'd feel you'd have to classify them all as Penal Colonies in one form or another.

The Dominion rarely take prisoners, and the few they do are for intel purposes. The Federation doesn't abuse its convicts.

Saying that all races must use stations the same way because another uses it that way is wrong. Thats like saying all Federation ships are warships because Klingon and Romulan ships are.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 3:33 pm

Well, it's not a role playing game, my friend!   If you're that worried by it, just think about how every time you click launch, you're going to be sending thousands upon thousands to their death, and every single one of those virtual lives will stain your guilty hands forever!

Or, you know...you could just see that it's a simple name change.

Not worried in a way of "oh my god, there are simulated people dying in this game", but single parts of the game always made me think of my conscience of moralty.
If I wouldn't accept the fact that the goal to win a match is to kill everything enemy on a map I wouldn't be allowed to install and play it at all. It's not a general conflict I want to point on, it's a very specificated one. It was all about slavery added to the game in mention only, which is a little unsatisfying to me since assimilation for example is actually a part of Borg gameplay so you're confronted with it if you play Borg yourself or against them.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 3:38 pm

Those moral mentions are a big part of Star Trek, slavery and forced labor isn't exactly unusual for Trek. Except the show goes a bit further than simply the name; such as high detail on the Cardassain occupation and Janeway promoting murder, ect.

In a way, it doesn't stand out that much.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 3:45 pm

Well, the Dominion has Alpha-Ketrecel white, which kills off it's crew for a small effect increase, and they willing commit terrorist suicide bombings when they ram their ships into others.  So do you not play dominion?  Or you simply don't use those ships?

I think we all understand that real slavery is bad, but the Klingons do use the criminals in their society for hard labor.  It's simply how their economy runs.  I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but I feel that it's over thinking the situation.  It's just a game!  

posted on January 17th, 2010, 3:52 pm

Calling it the Penal Colony sounds good to me

posted on January 17th, 2010, 4:00 pm

Well, the Dominion has Alpha-Ketrecel white, which kills off it's crew for a small effect increase, and they willing commit terrorist suicide bombings when they ram their ships into others.  So do you not play dominion?  Or you simply don't use those ships?

Don't forget I never said something like "I don't want anyone use it because it's bad", and besides that:
That's a big part of Dominion gameplay, and it's in the character of the race we saw on DS9.
Like assimilation is in the character of the Borg.
So why shouldn't slavery get as much of a meaning to the klingons if it's mentioned anyway?

posted on January 17th, 2010, 4:03 pm

That's exactly my point!   If using criminals from their penal colonies for hard labor like mining are part of the Klingon character, then why isn't that represented in some way?!  And that's why Dircome made his suggestion.  I think you see now.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 4:10 pm

Represented in mention only is not what I would call "as much of a meaning to the klingons" like assimilation has for the Borg, unless you have a lot of fantasies about that in your head while playing.

posted on January 17th, 2010, 4:13 pm

If the klingon mining facilities would be penal colonies, how would the prisoners react when someone tries to board the station?

posted on January 17th, 2010, 4:15 pm

Probably they would try to work alongside the boarding parties or get killed by them in an obligatory way (depending on WHO is boarding) 

posted on January 17th, 2010, 4:18 pm

Represented in mention only is not what I would call "as much of a meaning to the klingons" like assimilation has for the Borg, unless you have a lot of fantasies about that in your head while playing.

Assimilation may be a big part of the Borg, but it is also Slavery. A much worse one than simply making criminals mine resources. With the Klingons, it's no different than prisons in real life.

If the klingon mining facilities would be penal colonies, how would the prisoners react when someone tries to board the station?

As they too are likely to be killed, they would probably defend themselves against the attackers. Protecting the station is just an unfortunate side effect.