Torpedo Limits

posted on May 20th, 2011, 2:06 pm

Well you checked the wrong game then. I mentioned Command & Conquer, not specifically the fourth installment of that franchise.


From Tiberian Dawn (the first game) to Tiberium wars (the last part I played) all air-units have had to be reloaded with ammo.

Choppers had to land on their helipads and whenever Jets and planes were involved (Red Alert) they had to reload too.

Well then.... thats not all units is it, thats just the powerful air units that have been changed to use ammo so they cant dominate the game with very powerful weapons. You failed to mention that when you said the

Weapon limits have a place in RTS since Command&Conquer

no you didnt say it was all units but thats what comes across with that statement.

So again ammo restriction have no place in RTS games least of all in Fleet Ops.

posted on May 20th, 2011, 2:10 pm

actually he mentioned in brackets the air units called orca.

he's right that there is a place in rts for ammo restrictions. that doesnt imply there's a place for it in fleetops, just that there's a place for it in rts in general.

posted on May 20th, 2011, 2:15 pm

Not if there is a ship that resupplys the fleet, take the feds for example, the newton has industrial replicators on it, so perhaps it could have a constant aoe weapon that resupplys ships torp counts? i dont know what it could be for other species, except the romulans, since they can resupply there own plasma torpedos, so there could be a slight increase in there reload rate or such.

For resupplies away from yards from other ships, you could add this classLabel as a "weapon":

Code: Select all

classLabel = "AmmoSupplier"

resupplyRate = 6
baseTargets = 4
resupplyDilithiumCost = 0
resupplyTritaniumCost = 0
resupplySupplyCost = 1

specialEnergyCost = 4



posted on May 20th, 2011, 3:41 pm

he's right that there is a place in rts for ammo restrictions. that doesnt imply there's a place for it in fleetops, just that there's a place for it in rts in general.

# this

And don't forget another really good sci-fi RTS which had ammo consumption for EVERY ship class:
Conquest: Frontier Wars
Conquest: Frontier Wars - PC - IGN

Another idea could be the need to resupply special weapons instead of just recharging them. Actually that gonna be, no matter what, a huge re-balancing, lol.

posted on May 20th, 2011, 3:44 pm

I could see that for torpedo-based specials like the Tricobalt, but some specials are believably capable of recharging themselves. Ones like Emergency Power or Sensor Blackout.

[Anonymous]

posted on May 20th, 2011, 4:04 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on May 20th, 2011, 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think that this stuff should do it.  Resupplying should cost some resources.

In the facW_ship1.odf file, add these commands.

Code: Select all

hasLimitedAmmo = 1

// When the storage for this weapon runs out, all weapons that use the same storage also runs out.
// If two ships use the same storage, the storages are counted separately.
ammoStorageUsed = "facW_ship1Storage"


For the facW_ship1Storage.odf file, add these commands:

Code: Select all

classLabel = "weaponstorage"

maximumAmmo = 200
ammoReplicationRate = 0
resupplyDilithiumCost = 2
resupplyLatinumCost = 1
resupplyBiomatterCost = 1



For ships resupplying other ships ammo, this should be good.  Otherwise, the ammo will be resupplied by the yard.

Code: Select all

classLabel = "AmmoSupplier"

resupplyRate = 6
baseTargets = 4

resupplyDilithiumCost = 0
resupplyTritaniumCost = 0

resupplySupplyCost = 1

specialEnergyCost = 4



EDIT:  About what would happen if this was simulated by special energy consumption, I think it would be too complicated.

posted on May 20th, 2011, 7:49 pm

actually he mentioned in brackets the air units called orca.

he's right that there is a place in rts for ammo restrictions. that doesnt imply there's a place for it in fleetops, just that there's a place for it in rts in general.

I see i thought those were names of other RTS games that use ammo.

posted on May 20th, 2011, 8:46 pm

If it would take some of the special energy of ships it would be fine. Especially for Feds that could be nice...so no fedroll without pausing for recharge (or taking Norways).

posted on May 21st, 2011, 5:14 am

I think it could be cool maybe for all units maybe just for a few special ships (Fire all your torps and leave?)

[Zulnak]

posted on May 21st, 2011, 3:44 pm

Last edited by Zulnak on May 21st, 2011, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I like the idea of a "limited torpedo ammunition". It has some potential to wipe out this questions "why the saber have no luncher" or "why the steamrunner don't have phasers". Rechargeable torpedos by the yard-repair (or some other sort of recharge i.e.: plasma-torps get also recharged by romulan singularity generator) perhaps give the game another option to differ the early game from the middle- and late-game cause the number of torps a ship can carry with the overall size of the starship. In that case the early ships may get a fast roll-out when the opponent is able to switch into bigger yards / or even chasis. On the other hand you can equip smaller ships with lunchers without totaly ruin the balance because there will fast out of torps. Don't know, I just thinking about, it sounds interesting.

Just some thoughts from the top of my dome:
• there could by some kind of slow auto regeneration of the current number of torps up to the max limit to simulate the self-sufficiency of deepspace ships caue we know about the fact torps can be produced by the sharship/crew themself but we also see that it isn't that rare that a ship is went out of stock
• there could by some new special weapons to recharge torps quicker for the ship themself or may be an area effect like the nova does or x seconds no drain of the stockpile ...
• and if I thinking about the limited torp store could work in both directions ... it can push smaller ships up cause the bigger ones can not spam torps the whole time or even make the gap bigger to larger ships.
• it's a new aspect of micromanagement; u also have to take care of the current numbers of torps your ship is with not just hull, shields and specialenergy (for example some sort of crew info for the number of torps... 50/200)

Sorry for my broken language!

posted on May 21st, 2011, 4:16 pm

Maybe older designs could have torps limited by special energy that doesn't regenerate special energy, and say newer ships have torpedo replicators that can't be installed on older designs. It could take the excelsior torp system a bit further.

posted on May 21st, 2011, 4:17 pm

A limit would be especially useful for the Remore, which supposedly has too small a supply to use effectivly.

[Anonymous]

posted on May 21st, 2011, 4:44 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on May 22nd, 2011, 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Very interesting idea. It could also enable freighters to be implemented in FO again as front line support. Some time ago I suggested a Klingon weapon freighter already, able to reload all torpedo based special weapons. The Dominion could get a Karemma freighter which gives you Torps faster but also with a percentage of non-exploding ones' .
The question is how many torps a ship would get. Will the number be that high, that it is just a small feature that comes in action in very long games, or do you have small counts, so that it is an important part of ecnonomy and micromanagement to deal with your torps. Would torps need supplies to reload then?
What about Sangs, Susas, Bombers - small ships with torp armament only, if they got a low torp count they could become quite useless, if their torp strength isn't increased, too.

posted on May 21st, 2011, 8:32 pm

I do like the possibilities of this idea, provided repairing in a shipyard isn't the resupply method (awkward if your fleet isn't damaged).  Simply having your fleet near the resupply center or freighter (like how the borg get crew) would be nice.  Ships like the Nova could have a special weapon with a limited duration of its own that resupplies the fleet (and then itself would need to be resupplied).

Personally, I think the same goal would be met by simply making phasers stronger and greatly increasing the reload time on torpedo launchers.  Balancing would be easier this way too.  So, just for the sake of argument:

1) The battlefields are inside systems (less distance than needed for warp speed), and all comabatants have established supply bases and traffic.

2) FO is decades in the future - leaving aside technologies like subspace transporters which were made to work long ago, that the actual torpedoes are likely smaller (increased storage), and improvements to replication tech, this game is centered around fleet action.  Ships in the fleet would share what they have (likely negating one ship's inability to create it itself). 

3) The ships that ran out of torpedoes in canon weren't outfitted strictly for combat like in-game ones.  A galaxy class ship supporting a crew of 350 instead of 1000 would be able to dedicate considerable space for storage.  Ships that don't have their own launchers could still carry the torpedoes in storage for later distribution.

4) Canon also has instances of phasers being depleted (to the point of having to replace energy cells even at a starbase).  I'm all for ignoring that since it didn't make much sense, but still...

5) The rebalancing that would make this work would have to vastly increase the effectiveness of the torpedoes while they last.  A freshly supplied fleet would be a juggernaut and a nightmare to deal with.  Attacking a shipyard or supply center guarded by a fleet would be even harder.

posted on May 21st, 2011, 8:57 pm

Very interesting idea. It could also enable freighters to be implemented in FO again as front line support. Some time ago I suggested a Klingon weapon freighter already, able to reload all torpedo based special weapons. The Dominion could get a Karemma freighter which gives you Torps faster but also with a percentage of non-exploding ones' .
The question is how many torps a ship would get. Will the number be that high, that it is just a small feature that comes in action in very long games, or do you have small counts, so that it is an important part of ecnonomy and micromanagement to deal with your torps. Would torps need supplies to reload then?
What about Sangs, Susas, Bombers - small ships with torp armament only, if they became a low torp count they could become quite useless, if their torp strength isn't increased, too.

How about a speed boost once the torpedo's have been fired, lower bulk and power can be rerouted from weapons to engines, that would give such vessels a means of escape.