The Official Noxter Thread

posted on January 15th, 2009, 7:00 pm

8472 have a genetic similarity with their living ships, but I don't think it was ever stated if they created them or that they are a similar (servant maybe?) race. The ships could be original Noxter captured and used by 8472, genetically similar but different/less evolved, like modern Humans and Neanderthals.

I didn't associate them with those parasites, I just mentioned that they remind me of them. Must have been the similar appearance of the parasites and Noxter ships.

oh boy. If you were to now take a step back and review what was just said, you'll pretty much see why they are coming off as so related to each other.

not desirable when intending a brand new race.

posted on January 15th, 2009, 7:02 pm

Something seemed slightly off about it when I was writing it.

posted on January 16th, 2009, 3:40 am

I think no matter what, if any race that uses bio forms of ships is added to Fleet Ops everyone will automatically and subconsciencly relate and compare to species 8472 no matter what. It's no different then adding the Noxter to Starcraft... everyone will automatically compare the new race to the Zerg. The same could go for Warhammer, if the Noxter were added to Warhammer they would automatically be compared to the Tyranids. So look at it this way to hopefully stop the 8472 comparisons..

Similarities and differences to eachother

Similarities:
1. Both races are completely biological

2. Both races have a similar build style (However that was only in 2.0, the team promised a totally makeover for V3)

Differences:
1. 8472 is a super evolved, super intelligent power from another dimension.
    The Noxter are primal, instinct driven beings from normal space.

2. Species 8472 has human-esque sentience and understands all human concepts like math and science and art.
    The Noxter have totally different evolutionalry concepts that humans cannot comprehend while they themselves have no clue about math, science, art, and human-esque concepts.

3. 8472 has ridiculously powerful ships.
    Noxter has massive swarms of tiny ships

4. Species 8472 grows "ships" for a pilot to control
    Noxter don't have ships, they themselves function as "ships"

5. 8472 are humanoid
    Noxter are Insectoid

Obvious the differences greatly outweigh the similarities. Noxter are unique enough to be different from 8472. Wait for their release in V3 before they can be finally judged

posted on January 16th, 2009, 9:49 am

nice to see a growing Noxter community

i have some other stuff on todo first for the next patches, but as soon as i get the first Noxter models or gameplay elements finished i will provide you screenshots and more info

posted on January 16th, 2009, 10:18 am

i dnt see the problem with using 8472 as a base race if thats how they end up afterall the dominion, federation, klingon, romulan all use very simula (if not the same) building styles you mine dilithium and tritanium then build using shipyards so why cant the noxter extract its resource from enemy ships like 847 afterall they are both organic space dwellers.

also they can still have there own reesource as fo have not uterlised all of armada 2's resources (like metal) so they could use dilithium, tritanium, supplies and the metal resource. from what i remember from v2 is that noxter use close range more organic type of weapons than energy based weapons like 8472.

also about scavenging just because they dnt understand our tech dsnt mean it can not serve a purpose as a spawning ground as ships/stations have power/engery and warmth with could serve as a great purpose for spawning.

and for those who go on about cloning the a2 concept of 8472 with the evolution and building types could be said to be taken from tyranids since they use rapid evolution and strip things from any resources they can use (and were around way before 8472)

posted on January 16th, 2009, 3:25 pm

>:( Has anyone read my post about how I believe Noxter should evolve?!! In a related story, I am saying that Noxter is singular, not plural, supporting the idea that it's all one big base.

posted on January 16th, 2009, 3:54 pm

I think no matter what, if any race that uses bio forms of ships is added to Fleet Ops everyone will automatically and subconsciencly relate and compare to species 8472 no matter what. It's no different then adding the Noxter to Starcraft... everyone will automatically compare the new race to the Zerg. The same could go for Warhammer, if the Noxter were added to Warhammer they would automatically be compared to the Tyranids. So look at it this way to hopefully stop the 8472 comparisons..

Similarities and differences to eachother

Similarities:
1. Both races are completely biological

2. Both races have a similar build style (However that was only in 2.0, the team promised a totally makeover for V3)

Differences:
1. 8472 is a super evolved, super intelligent power from another dimension.
    The Noxter are primal, instinct driven beings from normal space.

2. Species 8472 has human-esque sentience and understands all human concepts like math and science and art.
    The Noxter have totally different evolutionalry concepts that humans cannot comprehend while they themselves have no clue about math, science, art, and human-esque concepts.

3. 8472 has ridiculously powerful ships.
    Noxter has massive swarms of tiny ships

4. Species 8472 grows "ships" for a pilot to control
    Noxter don't have ships, they themselves function as "ships"

5. 8472 are humanoid
    Noxter are Insectoid

Obvious the differences greatly outweigh the similarities. Noxter are unique enough to be different from 8472. Wait for their release in V3 before they can be finally judged

But from a gameplay the differences are not perceivable. It's more what you would use to console yourself when the Similarities that are blaring in gameplay come to the fore.

And no - there would not always be an asociation between 8472 and the Nox.
The association comes to the fore when ppl take ideas from the A2 stock 8472 instead of coming up with original stuff.

posted on January 16th, 2009, 4:02 pm

The people who wouldn't spot the similarity are the ones who never played Armada2.

When it comes to reusing the features and abilities of a race, my opinion is very simple; If it is good enough for every Trek series and movie, it's good enough for a game.

posted on January 16th, 2009, 4:04 pm

>:( Has anyone read my post about how I believe Noxter should evolve?!! In a related story, I am saying that Noxter is singular, not plural, supporting the idea that it's all one big base.

But how then does that apply to the gameplay style as being proposed here. Noxter should be unique when played. If they play just like 8472 stock, I am looking at something called Noxter in the game, but I know I am doing 8472 stuff.
It's like introducing a character to mortal kombat, that throws ice, freezes, is dressed as blue ninja, but is labeled Mr. Fantastic. Yet we all see it plays and looks like Sub-zero.
Then if even teh manual adds a new backstory, I still have sub-zero regardless of nomenclature and back-story.

So all the differences being cited here are story and make up related, but only if reflected gameplay, will it make any sense.

Maybe some of us would not have any problem with playing a character called mr.fantastic introduced as a new character, but still playing and looking like Sub-zero. Hey God alone knows how many games have sold just that over the years.

But when we have a chance here to have a say and contribute to the development process, we shouldn't be looking to cloning 8472 with what is supposed to be a completely unique and different animal.

Spoils the back-story which the devs have worked so hard to develop. And looks ridiculous saying no 8472 cos they're so difficult, balancing them would be a spoiler etc, only to have them back as the Mr. Fantastic of mortal kombat.

posted on January 16th, 2009, 4:11 pm

The people who wouldn't spot the similarity are the ones who never played Armada2.

When it comes to reusing the features and abilities of a race, my opinion is very simple; If it is good enough for every Trek series and movie, it's good enough for a game.

in regards to your first line - yes i agree. but most of us here have played A2.
in regards to the second part - yes if it's good for the series it should be good for the game. 8472 could also fall under this category.
However, we should not forget that here we are taking 8472 and calling it noxter (only in regards to the ideas being thrown out here). and that is a mismatch.

posted on January 16th, 2009, 5:06 pm

A bit more background story for the Noxter:

In the years after the Dominion War many Federation member planets (Alpha Centauri to name the most popular) started a program to support civil programs on Cardassia and other planets in the Cardassian Union. Supported by Starfleet a large-scale reconstruction program of the ruined union began. One could say that it was not only a gesture of good will, but also the attempt to bind Cardassia closer to the Federation and - in long term thinking - to make it a potential Federation member. But thats another story.

The resources to rebuild the cities and civil facilities of Cardassias were planed to come from the Noxadion asteroid belt, a large expanse of variable gravity which once was a solar system at the border of Cardassian space. The Noxadion sun became a supernova centuries ago, leaving nothing but a giant asteroid belt. The Cardassians already mined there during their first expansion phases, where the Union was founded. Federation engineers were quite confident, that modern mining system could get enough resources out of the system and Starfleet promised logistic support.

Only one year after the first mining operationsbegan  some freighters reported strange mass changes in the inner asteroid belt systems. First scans of unknown space-living organisms populating the asteroid belts were reported by a Starfleet vessel a few weeks later. All mining operations were frozen and a large Federation-wide discussion was kicked off, weather the prime directive should apply to space-living organisms as well, as many of the criterias the prime directive states were not fitting. With the Federation mining operations stopped the Noxadion system soon became the goal for many black-market and Ferengi miners, exploiting the asteroid belt to its limits. As they went deeper and depper into the system the space-living-lifeforms, called Noxter named after the asteroid belt, got more and more active.

The first black market transporters got lost within a few weeks. The USS Kentery found a Ferengi Marauder, badly damaged and most of its armor biologically digested. The Kentery scanned the freighter and towed it out of the belt, as suddelny its hull broke and several Noxter larvas escaped back into the belt.

Scannes were made of the wrackage and the organic remains were analyzed. The whole system was put under quarantine by Starfleet and attempts were made to communicate with this strange life form. All attempts failed so far and with growing fears Starfleet watched the Noxter expansion throughout the asteroid belt, unsure what the future may hold.

posted on January 16th, 2009, 5:20 pm

But how then does that apply to the gameplay style as being proposed here. Noxter should be unique when played. If they play just like 8472 stock, I am looking at something called Noxter in the game, but I know I am doing 8472 stuff.
It's like introducing a character to mortal kombat, that throws ice, freezes, is dressed as blue ninja, but is labeled Mr. Fantastic. Yet we all see it plays and looks like Sub-zero.
Then if even teh manual adds a new backstory, I still have sub-zero regardless of nomenclature and back-story.

So all the differences being cited here are story and make up related, but only if reflected gameplay, will it make any sense.

Maybe some of us would not have any problem with playing a character called mr.fantastic introduced as a new character, but still playing and looking like Sub-zero. Hey God alone knows how many games have sold just that over the years.

But when we have a chance here to have a say and contribute to the development process, we shouldn't be looking to cloning 8472 with what is supposed to be a completely unique and different animal.

Spoils the back-story which the devs have worked so hard to develop. And looks ridiculous saying no 8472 cos they're so difficult, balancing them would be a spoiler etc, only to have them back as the Mr. Fantastic of mortal kombat.

It wouldn't spoil the back spoil the backstory AT ALL, and it would be a huge wall that separates 8472 from Noxter. I'm not too good at comebacks, but I typically can get my point across. But with Optec stating that the Jem'Hadar are genetically engineered Noxters, then why not use the "fast growth" that is canon for the Jem'Hadar? By making the officer levels new forms of development for larval Noxter, although you would have to put in a timer so that it gains experience from just being on the field, that would completely separate them from stock A2's 8472! Sure, it might take some extra coding, but wouldn't it be worth it? I mean, you could use the same system that is used for the Borg to get resources, with some modifications. And, Serpicus, isn't the Feature Request supposed to be about requesting new features for races, and not just for discussing backstories? Can you answer that to me?

posted on January 16th, 2009, 5:45 pm

aye, some interessting ideas they are noted down

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on January 16th, 2009, 7:24 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on January 16th, 2009, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just thought of something else since you mentioned the biological destruction of the Ferengi hull:
What if the Noxter started off with a breeding ship (a Mother or progenetrix if you will ) which produces larvae. These larvae are then sent off where they can feed on moons, nebulae or enemy ships, which all affect their next forms. For instance, if you feed on a dilithium moon, you can create one of several support vessels... and the longer you feed on that moon, the higher the level of support vessel you can make. Each of these larvae would have one special button called "metamorphosis" or something of the ilk: by clicking on this button after feeding on the dilithium moon, you get the option of choosing one of the support ships... which is then built after a short cocooning period (hence metamorphosis... NOT evolve). Upon this, the player can have the support ship feed upon several resources (say both types of moon, and any nebula) to get access to its support powers permanently (sort of like research). All nebulae would count for the same type of research and vessel creation for balancing sake. Thus, feeding on dilithium would get you support ships, feeding on tritanium would produce destroyers/crusers, and feeding on any nebula would get you battleships. Feeding and thus destroying enemy ships with the larva would allow you to produce ANY of these type of ships (though with a longer metamorphosis depending on the ship class). When any of these ship classes are finished, each research button would be greyed out and indicate what sort of resource (and how long it would be required to feed upon it) would be required to grant the technology.

Larvae would act as the scouts of the race (being fast but weak) and there would be no shipyards and no structures except for the progenetrix... who can also build very slowly moving turrets when she feeds on a resource (her chemical frass: perhaps mines to give biological reasoning behind that). To balance this, while eating a resource she only has the ability to produce either larvae or mines, not both at the same time.

Other ideas: certain noxter vessels could "suck up" resources from enemy ships, moons, or nebulae to overcharge various weapons. This is a limited effect, and could behave like the special energy of other races (where you charge a very large amount of the special energy by going to these resources). Perhaps certain ships by destroying enemy ships have a "redistribution" ability where they give all allied ships within an area access to increased regeneration rates and overcharging weapons.
One more thing: I do not think repair should function solely like Federation or Borg, or [insert race] (i.e. not just repair vessel, regeneration, or yard). Perhaps regeneration of ships can ONLY occur when these specific support vessels are in range, and the only other method to fix ships is to "eat" a resource. I.E. going into a nebula or feeding on dilitihium tritanium, or enemy ships fixes your ship. Another method might be canabilization: where one allied ship can eat another to gain the health of the eaten ship (say a battleship is badly damage: eat a scout larva and get the larval amount of health back).

Ah, almost forgot in case this hadn't been clearly stated. Resources are not stored, they are immediately used (as when a ship gains the ability to metamorphose, or when the progenetrix creates mines/larvae as she eats a resource)

Hope these ideas provoke thought 

posted on January 16th, 2009, 7:53 pm

yep we have some similar ideas, although not as a basic element for construction (most Noxter still hatch at the swarm nebulas and not at vessels), but these are interessting gameplay elements that will be included as best as we can