The Official Noxter Thread

posted on January 15th, 2009, 4:41 pm

that's the 8472 miner again. . still essentially the same.

And the ship refits are just 8472 evolution with a new AdmiralsLog label, the Vector Torpedo is a Chain Reaction Pulsar with a new name, Precise Volley is a one-target Shield Disruptor. How exactly is the Resource extractor different from any other ability in the game?

Also, if Noxter didn't understand our kind of tech, then why would they scavenge? What's the point of gaining control of a capital ship if you can't control it? Can you answer that? 

Who said anything about scavanging tech?

posted on January 15th, 2009, 4:42 pm

Energy spawning grounds. Tow back to base. Process into energy. Also, the comment was aimed at both of you.
I was thinking more of dragging them back to base for processing to energy. However, all of my ideas are completely disposable, and are meant to keep balance while giving that race and edge. Also, if Noxter didn't understand our kind of tech, then why would they scavenge? What's the point of gaining control of a capital ship if you can't control it? Can you answer that?  :unsure:

Correct.
I agree with parts of what ur saying.

How or why would you drag a derelict that has no energy back to base, energize it with your energy, and then use it to spawn. When in fact you can pretty much spawn on your own.

Plus, you mentioned that the Noxter have no understanding of tech. Scavenging or even dragging back to spawn would imply a contradiction!!

[Megaman3321]

posted on January 15th, 2009, 4:46 pm

Last edited by Megaman3321 on January 15th, 2009, 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I meant scavenging in general. You may use the special energy to convert it into useable energy, and the ship would decommission right when you ran out of special energy to harvest, or you would also harvest the engines till the ship explodes. The grabber thing is useful when a) the ship isn't derelict, b) it has no special energy, or c) it has low system hitpoints and high hull hitpoints. (I'm talking about health)

Correct.
I agree with parts of what ur saying.

How or why would you drag a derelict that has no energy back to base, energize it with your energy, and then use it to spawn. When in fact you can pretty much spawn on your own.

Plus, you mentioned that the Noxter have no understanding of tech. Scavenging or even dragging back to spawn would imply a contradiction!!

Precisely what I'm trying to say, unless their scavening is more like what I said.

[Anonymous]

posted on January 15th, 2009, 4:46 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on January 15th, 2009, 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And the ship refits are just 8472 evolution with a new AdmiralsLog label, the Vector Torpedo is a Chain Reaction Pulsar with a new name, Precise Volley is a one-target Shield Disruptor. How exactly is the Resource extractor different from any other ability in the game?

Who said anything about scavanging tech?

Ship refits are refits. Evolution in A2 was from a larva to a fixed kind of ship. It was a change from one form to another.
A refit is an augmentation on an existing base hull. not transforming an Excelsior into a Sov

But in your statement, you are certainly implying a knock off of 8472 - which is more obvious than a refit or anything in that sense.

So what is the point that you;re making then?

The 8472 miner idea being knockd off here and called "scavenging". But what is going to be scavenged. We have dilithium and trilithium as minable. At the most noxter will scavenge supplies. You can try to call it bones but it wll end up being supplies or supplies under a special name. That's fine.
But in essence it is again the A2 8472 implementation of miners!!
The Mother is itself from A2 8472
the Spawn and grow idea instead of Evolve as A2 8472

These are all simply clones or rip-offs from 8472

So if WE are stating that WE --as forum members --(I do not know what the devs have in mind) want Noxter because we dont want "a difficult to balance" 8472, and hence look for a new race, WE should not disregard the fact that all that is being dished out here are those same 8472 ideas with new nomenclature and a new name to 8472 vis a vis Noxter. The epitome of old wine in a new bottle.

[Megaman3321]

posted on January 15th, 2009, 4:54 pm

Last edited by Megaman3321 on January 15th, 2009, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ship refits are refits. Evolution in A2 was from a larva to a fixed kind of ship. It was a change from one form to another.
A refit is an augmentation on an existing base hull. not transforming an Excelsior into a Sov

But in your statement, you are certainly implying a knock off of 8472 - which is more obvious than a refit or anything in that sense.

So what is the point that you;re making then?

The 8472 miner idea being knockd off here.
The Mother idea tehre
the Spawn and grow idea instead of Evolve as A2 8472

These are all simply clones or rip-offs from 8472

So if we are stating that WE as forum members (I do not know what teh devs have in mind) want Noxter because we dont want a difficult to balance or dumbed down 8472, and hence look for anew race, WE should not disregard the fact that all that is being dished out here are those same 8472 ideas with new nomenclature and a new name to 8472 vis a vis Noxter.

I also agree with parts of what you're saying. I mean, like you said, it shouldn't be evolve, as true evolution requires millions of years. It should be grow. Also, as officer rank increases, the ships take on different forms, depending on what form it started out as. HOWEVER, officer rank would just speed up the process, as after a certain amount of time has passed, and the ship is still alive, it becomes the next stage of development. Also, until it reaches top level, the skin looks like it's constantly fluctuating. How's that for originality? Noxter doesn't mine, it creates. Well, the Mother would create, making a slow but steady stream of resources, and the energy thing is how the Mother Noxter would defend her children. That would be her normal weapon. The FATHER (aka the other choice) would mine (the Noxter equivalent of working) and would be more powerful than the Mother Noxter, but could not destroy vessels with the same efficiency. Both can build themselves and each other once Noxter has enough of something that will be decided. If I expanded this so that it was how people here rant, then it would be the equivalent of a rant.

posted on January 15th, 2009, 4:55 pm

Serpicus, it sounds like your saying you want a game where no races have abilities that others have. Everything is a knock-off of something.

I was talking about refits in the game, where the only difference is it is instant. It uses the same build menu, cost resources and cannot be reversed.

posted on January 15th, 2009, 4:59 pm

Serpicus, it sounds like your saying you want a game where no races have abilities that others have. Everything is a knock-off of something.

I was talking about refits in the game, where the only difference is it is instant. It uses the same build menu, cost resources and cannot be reversed.

True, true. But, they're all different in some way from the things that they're knock-offs of, making them original! 

[redmanmark86]

posted on January 15th, 2009, 5:07 pm

Last edited by redmanmark86 on January 15th, 2009, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

again taking 8472 as inspiration? could we please keep Noxter unique with as little 8472 ishness as possible.
Otherwise it is merely a rip off - made due to the inability or unwillingness to work on adapting the canon species to game dynamics.

Noxter should be noxter. Unique.
Not knock offs that WILL remind the player of an 8472 fill-in.

AND can we please not call it mother?!!!
Call it nest. call it queen. Call it birthing chamber. Call it Uterus!
But Mother has A2 8472 all over it!

Other than that - Damn cool drawing Neph. And great suggestions. (ure going all out to get the Noxter )

so can i not call my mother mother because your mother is called mother, what stupid logic, drop the cloan thing already will you. And its got nothing to do with them not willing to adapt an already existing race but more to do with the delta quadrant aint included in their story line and Voyager is still in the Delta Quadrant, if you read Optecs post in your topic you would see he made this quite clear. They want 8472 to be a NPC that randomly can appear on a map and be devasting just like in Voyager before crappy unrealistic voyager technology kicked in...

posted on January 15th, 2009, 5:12 pm

Good man, redmanmark86.

posted on January 15th, 2009, 5:42 pm

so can i not call my mother mother because your mother is called mother, what stupid logic, drop the cloan thing already will you. And its got nothing to do with them not willing to adapt an already existing race but more to do with the delta quadrant aint included in their story line and Voyager is still in the Delta Quadrant, if you read Optecs post in your topic you would see he made this quite clear. They want 8472 to be a NPC that randomly can appear on a map and be devasting just like in Voyager before crappy unrealistic voyager technology kicked in...

lol. I hope you're not mixing and matching now. Im not talking about 8472 as playable. It is NPC and Im fine with that.
I am however hitting at the entire history of rationale from our board members such as yourself.

Especially when trying to get a new race, and rejecting the idea that Noxter are merely a rip off, to then rip off nomenclature is rather blatant.

The rest of the procrastination behind the veil of "I can cannot call my mother mother while u can" misses the core taht in the end you have a "Mother" like 8472 does. you dont have a nest. you dont have a uterus, you dont have a starbase, you dont have a hive, instead you have a "mother"

In an environment where races are standardized with starbases, your standardization with "Mother" shows a clearer association and copy of 8472 at the back of your mind - which is fine and dandy.

But if Noxter is supposed to be a unique race of space faring insectoids which were the progenitors of the Jem'hadar, then having them replicate teh same names and style of an alien from fluidic space, while at the same time claiming uniqueness and Voyager in the Delta Quadrant is a contradiction.
the subsequent storyline you're quoting and requoting claiming Voyager still being in the delta quadrant, goes against the Nemesis timeline - which has Voyager back.
Since the Tavara is absent in nemesis and the scimitar was shown as the most powerful romulan ship, introducing the Tavara in the Voyager in the delta quadrant timeline is another anachronism.

In effect we have to be very careful in claiming timeline and situations, in order to exclude 8472 or any other race, as in case of the Tavs, tends to make the existing ships seem out of place.

This is what I was driving at.

posted on January 15th, 2009, 5:57 pm

lol. I hope you're not mixing and matching now. Im not talking about 8472 as playable. It is NPC and Im fine with that.
I am however hitting at the entire history of rationale from our board members such as yourself.

Especially when trying to get a new race, and rejecting the idea that Noxter are merely a rip off, to then rip off nomenclature is rather blatant.

The rest of the procrastination behind the veil of "I can cannot call my mother mother while u can" misses the core taht in the end you have a "Mother" like 8472 does. you dont have a nest. you dont have a uterus, you dont have a starbase, you dont have a hive, instead you have a "mother"

In an environment where races are standardized with starbases, your standardization with "Mother" shows a clearer association and copy of 8472 at the back of your mind - which is fine and dandy.

But if Noxter is supposed to be a unique race of space faring insectoids which were the progenitors of the Jem'hadar, then having them replicate teh same names and style of an alien from fluidic space, while at the same time claiming uniqueness and Voyager in the Delta Quadrant is a contradiction.
the subsequent storyline you're quoting and requoting claiming Voyager still being in the delta quadrant, goes against the Nemesis timeline - which has Voyager back.
Since the Tavara is absent in nemesis and the scimitar was shown as the most powerful romulan ship, introducing the Tavara in the Voyager in the delta quadrant timeline is another anachronism.

In effect we have to be very careful in claiming timeline and situations, in order to exclude 8472 or any other race, as in case of the Tavs, tends to make the existing ships seem out of place.

This is what I was driving at.

dont look at me, as i have stated before i have nothing agaisnt 8472 being in the game as i feel the more races the better.

I just dont understand your need to constantly compare everything FO do with the Noxter as a rip off to 8472 when everything is a rip off of something in some way... Im not as trek savvy as you and i dont follow time and dates too well, just watch the show and like it but im sure there is a hardcore trekkei around here who could pull out some cannon facts...

back to the mother thing, with the size of the universe why wouldnt there be anotehr race out there that fuctions and acts like 8472 and names things similarly, i mean look at all the humanoids out there?

your pointlessy going around and around in circles moaning over pointless petty little things to do with the noxter when you havent seen their final incarnation as we already know FO have something very different planned for them thn beta 2, so why dont you just wait and se what they make and then commence your constantly comparing of them to 8472?

[Anonymous]

posted on January 15th, 2009, 6:05 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on January 15th, 2009, 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Serpicus, it sounds like your saying you want a game where no races have abilities that others have. Everything is a knock-off of something.

I was talking about refits in the game, where the only difference is it is instant. It uses the same build menu, cost resources and cannot be reversed.

oh come now. now you;re throwing a hissy fit cos you have nothing more to say to the contrary.

The roms, klings, dom, feds, borg etc are all canon. Their technology has been shown in the series, and certainly a normal criticism is that the canon races in star trek are quite similar in format and structure.

This holds for canon races. We stick by it cos it is canonically accepted into the STU.

In the case of the noxter however, we have a slight contradiction. allow me to explain why .

The canon races are in the alpha/beta quadrant and have developed primarily through technology exchanges. Not directly, but thre are interactions and arms races that have occurred. so after 300 years of being in contact we can buy similarities in how things are run.
In case of the Dominion, we do not know what the original founder ships or concepts were, but we can buy that they turned militaristic, and being corporeal had the same physical limitations as we. Drawing on how war would be fought on any flat planet with outposts, repair and manufacturing structures etc they arrive at a similar tech tree.
It should be noted that technologies have differed and the implementations of the tech trees were different - to account for race specific ingenuity - an idea that FO has done an excellent job of maintaining.

As cheesy as the reasoning sounds, as Star Trek fans, we have all bought into it already and taken it as "canon".

The contradiction that arises in case of Noxter is they are emulating 8472 despite supposedly having nothing in common, not even space or laws of physics (see similarities cited above). The idea of having Noxter introduced is in of itself a conscious attempt at compensating for 8472.

Again, I have no problem with that. And I do not know what the mods have in mind for developing the Noxter.

But to see the Noxter ideas being mentioned here, simply cloning and repeating the very same implementation for A2 8472 destroys the suspense and interest that a supposedly unique race is supposed to bring to the game.

In this specific case then, the Noxter are turning out to be simply a renamed 8472 with a bit of storytelling and nomenclature changes - changes which in regards to gameplay are more cosmetic than anything..

When we then introduce a "new" race as an illusion to include an existing one under a new name, it kinda defeats the purpose.

And it is for this that Noxter (as conceptualized here, again I dont know what the devs have planned) ends up being a rip off of 8472.

posted on January 15th, 2009, 6:16 pm

We have several can races that are offshoots of known races or at least similar. Considering the size of the galaxy, there would likely be at least one race similar to them.

On an unrelated note, the Noxter seem to bring those Trill-like parasites from TNG to mind.

posted on January 15th, 2009, 6:38 pm

We have several can races that are offshoots of known races or at least similar. Considering the size of the galaxy, there would likely be at least one race similar to them.

On an unrelated note, the Noxter seem to bring those Trill-like parasites from TNG to mind.

huh?? 

I thought they were supposed to be giant space insects. That was supposed to be their big difference over 8472 - remember 1 is an organic living symbiotic ship with a pilot, the other is a living ship.

how then do we associate them with the Trill parasites?

Now Im really confused 

posted on January 15th, 2009, 6:54 pm

8472 have a genetic similarity with their living ships, but I don't think it was ever stated if they created them or that they are a similar (servant maybe?) race. The ships could be original Noxter captured and used by 8472, genetically similar but different/less evolved, like modern Humans and Neanderthals.

I didn't associate them with those parasites, I just mentioned that they remind me of them. Must have been the similar appearance of the parasites and Noxter ships.