The Brand New SFC!

posted on March 27th, 2010, 7:44 pm

So I know that the Starfleet Command will be getting adjusted along with the entire Federation redo (and I'm SO excited), but I thought I would put a few ideas out there for how to handle the SFC as many people get themselves worked up thinking about it.

I'll be an concise as possible (as I have a tendency to ramble) 


  IDEA #1:

  -->  Place the SFC at the top of the tech-tree.  It will equal the Federation equivalent of the Moq'bara, the Intel Center / Cloaking Generator, the HyperSpace Artillery / Perimeter / Sensor Station.

  Required changes:

•   Federation early-game might require another vessel easily accessible without the Engineering going up.
•   Warp-ins themselves might need a more effective and useful special per-ship in order to make their presence felt in the way that the Moq'bara or Hyperspace does.
•   Perhaps even give the SFC more things to do than just Warp-in ships.
•   If at the top of the tech-tree, I feel that no supply / resource penalty or cost would be necessary.

  This is my vote .  I'd love to see the Warp-ins come in and be worth protecting instead of being free cannon fodder.


  IDEA #2:

  --> Keep SFC equal to the Eraudi Yard in the tech Tree while creating a cost per Warp-in or a Supply cost for setting up the SFC.

Required Changes: (I suggest these numbers:)

•   100 Supply to the cost of setting up SFC.  It's a center for Starfleet Command Officers!  They need coffee, pencils, and cool little gold pips for their collars!  Clearly with bureaucratic spending it would cost 100 supply .  This is on par with how much you'd likely spend in supplies upgrading your field yard or using the Intel Center's abilities.  Keep in mind that Klingons have SUPER expensive supplies while Rommie ships are much more expensive in supplies in general.

OR

•   25-30 Supplies Per Warp-in.  These ships are brought in as an emergency, sure!  But knowing they are coming means you will have to set up control and observation teams to track them and act as a "ground crew" now that they are being transferred  to you.  Every Submarine, Airplane, Naval Ship, and even Tank in the United States Military has huge teams of trained professionals monitoring their every move, keeping their own supply lines open, providing them with up-to-date intelligence, and on stand-by to keep them healthy and maintained.  Flops-wise, all the benefits of other unique race-specific stations do indeed have a slight drawback.  Feds should be no exception! 

  People like to say "NO!  LEAVE ME WITH MY FREE SHIPS!  NO SUPPLY COST NECESSARY!"  But keep in mind: if you are Klingon and you want to get out more ships faster, you pay 50 supplies PER HANGAR on the Field yard ...  creating 3 KbeajQ will cost you 1200 dilithium and take a minute and a half from 3 Hangars.  That does not include the cost of the hangar exp's.  A Warp-in gives you more stats, FOR FREE, in exactly twice as long. 

  Again though, I feel that losing Supply based on Warp-in deaths ignores the root of the problem: that you still get them for free .  Getting them OUT and into combat costs you nothing beyond the cost of the station, which isn't bad.  Ambassadors are currently the biggest problem with that because they are SO good (as they should be ).

posted on March 27th, 2010, 8:07 pm

good ideas mostly boggz, i think slight costs should be incurred if the ships are lost. also it should start off giving you small ships, then as your number of stations (and federation citizens to protect) increases, starfleet will answer your cries for help with bigger ships.

i dont like the idea of putting sfc at the top of the tree, as you would need an incentive to tech that far up, which would mean either giving these old ships more special tech/features than they can handle/should have. or giving the station itself some special, which would be more useful on a lower tech tree station.

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on March 27th, 2010, 8:54 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on March 27th, 2010, 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I tend to agree Myles - I don't particularly like the idea of placing SFC at the top of the tree because that makes it even more likely that these ships will be used as canon fodder in my opinion (since not only are most mid-range cruisers-types, but by that point in the game you will have accumulated quite a few normal combat vessels).

For a time I thought that a cost should be incurred if your ships do not survive for longer than a certain time, but I think Boggz is correct that in the end they are still free ships. There is no cost if you can can keep them alive - so I think that a penalty should be incurred anytime one dies to offset this.

One of the concerns I see with the Warp In ability is that it allows the supreme advantage of being able to strike anywhere as long as you have explored in that region. It does seem rather peculiar to see the Federation send a fleet anywhere regardless of what the situation is (hey, they like to know what they are getting into!).

Perhaps Warp In can only go where you have exposed shroud. If shroud should vanish, the Warp-In never arrives ... although this doesn't seem quite right either, as how many times have we seen the Enterprise warp-in when they stopped receiving hails? So instead, maybe one Federation unit has to be present in the location and the Warp In will then travel to that unit. Basically you'd select your SFC, click the warp in ability, click on the location you want to send it, and the closest unit to your beacon would "call" the Warp-In to its location. This would thus allow any Federation Vessel (or perhaps station?) to call for help, and thus to attack far off expansions, you'd have to actually invest the effort in keeping a scout nearby. 

posted on March 27th, 2010, 9:01 pm

i like that idea, of only going to where a unit is. another option is that starfleet command can drop a probe/beacon which the ships would fly to, allowing deploying ships in random places. but if the enemy destroys the probe then the ships go to sfc instead.

posted on March 27th, 2010, 9:24 pm

Perhaps Warp In can only go where you have exposed shroud. If shroud should vanish, the Warp-In never arrives ... although this doesn't seem quite right either, as how many times have we seen the Enterprise warp-in when they stopped receiving hails? So instead, maybe one Federation unit has to be present in the location and the Warp In will then travel to that unit. Basically you'd select your SFC, click the warp in ability, click on the location you want to send it, and the closest unit to your beacon would "call" the Warp-In to its location.

Ah no... I don't think that's believable.

First thing is, in a game you are building up in a system. At least your SFC is present when warping in, so the system has federation-communication in there so warping in to an already charted region of the system HAS to be possible, with or without current recon-data from an own ship located there.

posted on March 27th, 2010, 9:30 pm

its definitely possible, but i think starfleet ships entering the area would be more likely to go to where a ship currently is, to assist and whatnot rather than to attack. sfc is after all sending a distress call, not a come-and-die-glorious-red-shirt-death-to-harass-enemy-mining-call

posted on March 27th, 2010, 9:55 pm

Can't say I'm a fan of putting it at the top of the tech tree.

100 Supply to the cost of setting up SFC.

I still feel that this should go to at least 250, as that ends up being 750/750 for the first supply purchase.

I have no problem with the supply costs being high for the other way as well, since supply is supposed to be our soft counter to slow things down. 

My personal solution for warp in would be for it to require SF Engineering and require 250 supply for SFC, but I wouldn't have a problem with the supply costs being for each warp in.  It lets the feds still have warp in during the latter part of the early game phase, but there's actually some cost to using the ability, so it doesn't act like a free yard that doesn't cost you money.  It's a pretty powerful ability.  The costs should reflect that.

posted on March 27th, 2010, 10:38 pm

Maybe I should clarify that I don't necessarily mean at the TIPPY TOP of the Tech tree, because the intel center can go up without EVERYTHING having been built .

  I just mean that it's the up in the equivalent area of the Eraudi yard: that it require both Engineering and the Research Facil.  Let's be honest:  Feds have the fewest number of stations besides Borg, so what harm is there in making it the top?  Very little.  The TOP would mean that the Eraudi yard would have to be built.  Not the top would mean no eraudi needed for SFC.  Anything less than that would be faster than what we have now .  So pick and choose all you want, but it's a very minor difference.


  I, personally, am all for having a supply cost per-Warp-in.  I don't like the idea at all of losing supplies when you lose a ship, because if you've already paid for them, you are not going to sacrifice them either.  ALSO, this way the Feds cannot continue to receive free ships if they run out of supply.  This is especially damning in 1 v 1 with klingons because your first Supply purchase is crippling against an enemy that can continue to receive free replacements.  And what happens if they run out of supplies totally?  Do their stations start blowing up if they lose a Warp-in and have no supply for the penalty?  NO.

  I feel that a penalty on death is a good idea ONLY if there is also a 25 or 30 supply cost per use.  This way it costs something no matter what, but you are still encouraged to preserve your Warp-ins by not sacrificing them.

posted on March 27th, 2010, 11:08 pm

my point earlier still applies, if you put it really high, then it must be worth it. how do you make it worth it? if you give them too much power it becomes silly as they are old ships. to put them that high up they would definitely need to remain free, to give them that advantage. but most people are opposed to them being completely free and would like small costs, even if it is only cost on death.

posted on March 27th, 2010, 11:15 pm

I agree with you.

  I believe that a supply cost on death is fine, but should not be the only sacrifice made.  The main issue is RECEIVING free ships imo, and only having a death penalty encourages careful use of them, true, but does nothing to alleviate the issue of FREE SHIPS .  That's at least 1/2 the issue.

  An initial cost of setting up SFC and a death penalty works too.  There needs to be a mix, so that the ships are not cannon fodder when they arrive and are not massable as a free fleet should they be hoarded at a base.

posted on March 27th, 2010, 11:16 pm

Ah no... I don't think that's believable.

First thing is, in a game you are building up in a system. At least your SFC is present when warping in, so the system has federation-communication in there so warping in to an already charted region of the system HAS to be possible, with or without current recon-data from an own ship located there.

I didn't say it wasn't possible - heck, you technically can warp into a completely unexplored district right? It just seems more logical that you'd want to warp in to where your ships are rather than warp into a completely unknown area. It's a distress call, right? You want to be where thedistressed ships are  :whistling:

posted on March 27th, 2010, 11:20 pm

I didn't say it wasn't possible - heck, you technically can warp into a completely unexplored district right? It just seems more logical that you'd want to warp in to where your ships are rather than warp into a completely unknown area. It's a distress call, right? You want to be where thedistressed ships are  :whistling:

I would just not consider the warpin as a distress call
If it actually were a distress call the SFC broadcasts, every warpin should technically arrive near the SFC.^^

posted on March 27th, 2010, 11:21 pm

I would just not consider the warpin as a distress call
If it actually were a distress call the SFC broadcasts, every warpin should technically arrive near the SFC.^^

  You may not consider it that way, but that's what it is supposed to be .  Optec has said that before .

posted on March 27th, 2010, 11:23 pm

  You may not consider it that way, but that's what it is supposed to be .  Optec has said that before .

My apologies to Dominus then 

It seems I missed Optecs line about that

posted on March 27th, 2010, 11:24 pm

My apologies to Dominus then 

It seems I missed Optecs line about that

My hamster is actually taking apologies made to Dom right now. 

    <----  Boggz' hamster.