Shuttlecrafts

posted on January 4th, 2012, 3:16 am

We have seen combat with several varieties of small shuttle or fighter sized craft on Star Trek TV shows and movies. Not only Star Wars uses little itty bitty ships. 

posted on January 4th, 2012, 3:36 am

Runabouts were useful in DS9 so i disagree with your analyses that they not useful in canon.

I'm not sure if there has been an official comment about looting resources, but looting was simply one of the examples of possible use of a runabout size vessel. The idea is multi functionality.

That concept can be dropping sensors/ jammers or mines (though that is going to be a Romulan trait), raiding mining etc. Especially with the new system which is coming with the new patch (offensive/defensive profiles) an all-round vessel which can be adapted to serve different roles can be a worthwhile addition. It brings flexibility and with it options for alternate tactics/strategies.

Edit: an option can also be to hack into the sensors of a station (like the romulan spy) to temporary give access to the sensors. Not instant access, but e.g. 10-15 second delay.

No, no they weren't. They ferried around diplomats and tussled with other small ships. The only legitimate fight they won was against a bug, which is a ship notorious for how the directors played fast and loose with regards to its size, crew, and function. With the amount of runabouts DS9 lost to various incidents, it was almost a running gag. In fact, the reason DS9 introduced the Defiant was because the runabouts were so outclassed. (They overcompensated somewhat.)

Additionally, there is no way in hell a runabout can fit a miner's worth (or even near that amount) of resources on board. Privateers used large ships for a reason, no?

What I have a problem with is the ridiculously broad mission profile of these ships, and the fact that it's all a rehash of what can already be done - only without a good reason to rehash it in the first place. Yes, it can do what you say, but by no means should it.

We have seen combat with several varieties of small shuttle or fighter sized craft on Star Trek TV shows and movies. Not only Star Wars uses little itty bitty ships. 

No, my logic is sound. In Star Wars, there's a preponderance of small ships - be they snubfighters or armed freighters such as the Millenium Falcon - that fly around with impunity because capital ships' defenses (with exceedingly rare exception) are fairly inaccurate. What this Fleet Operations suggestion adds so far is a preponderance of small ships, able to execute all manner of clever missions (oh so clever!) because beam weapons are - suddenly! - fairly inaccurate.

This is not a good suggestion. Perhaps if it were toned down slightly and focused on all five races instead of merely the Federation, it would be a passable suggestion and my complaints would simply be the ramblings of a disaffected, stridently traditionalist curmudgeon.

(I still think that minefields have more potential, though.)

posted on January 4th, 2012, 4:27 am

the subspace of a ship at warp is not much bigger than the ship (see in enterprise where the columbia helps the enterprise out). yet phasers can fire much farther, outside of the same subspace bubble, hence the phasers somehow travel faster than light.

some inconsistencies just can't be patched up without using ridiculous technobabble.

I'm saying thatt it would not be possible AND it would destroy the ship its fireing from without touching the other ship.
PS: yes I do understand everything Geordi talks about

posted on January 4th, 2012, 5:40 am

Ive often wanted minefields that worked like spatial charges from the dominion godturret

posted on January 4th, 2012, 10:48 am

Runabouts would be like venture-class scouts. I have never seen a useful scout that can do anything effective instead of scouting. It cant even take out a miner. It would be in the yard, before the shields are down.

posted on January 4th, 2012, 12:11 pm

we do indeed have plans to improve the shuttle trafic animations for the next versions including bringing back civil shuttles

That's awesome! 

I've love to see the Delta Flyer I know some don't like it but I am sure there are others who do!

posted on January 4th, 2012, 12:24 pm

No, no they weren't. They ferried around diplomats and tussled with other small ships. The only legitimate fight they won was against a bug, which is a ship notorious for how the directors played fast and loose with regards to its size, crew, and function. With the amount of runabouts DS9 lost to various incidents, it was almost a running gag. In fact, the reason DS9 introduced the Defiant was because the runabouts were so outclassed. (They overcompensated somewhat.)

Additionally, there is no way in hell a runabout can fit a miner's worth (or even near that amount) of resources on board. Privateers used large ships for a reason, no?

What I have a problem with is the ridiculously broad mission profile of these ships, and the fact that it's all a rehash of what can already be done - only without a good reason to rehash it in the first place. Yes, it can do what you say, but by no means should it.

No, my logic is sound. In Star Wars, there's a preponderance of small ships - be they snubfighters or armed freighters such as the Millenium Falcon - that fly around with impunity because capital ships' defenses (with exceedingly rare exception) are fairly inaccurate. What this Fleet Operations suggestion adds so far is a preponderance of small ships, able to execute all manner of clever missions (oh so clever!) because beam weapons are - suddenly! - fairly inaccurate.

This is not a good suggestion. Perhaps if it were toned down slightly and focused on all five races instead of merely the Federation, it would be a passable suggestion and my complaints would simply be the ramblings of a disaffected, stridently traditionalist curmudgeon.

(I still think that minefields have more potential, though.)

Actually you've just proven my point. The bugs in DS9 had plot status leading up to the destruction of a Galaxy Class. While a Danube could not go toe to toe with a bug it did hold its own making it a capable vessel for its size.

It was workhorse being able to be adapted for various missions. You have a problem with the broad mission profile, but IMO that is why it could be an interesting addition.

As for the minefields, it has been mentioned that those will be a Romulan feature.

posted on January 4th, 2012, 12:28 pm

Actually you've just proven my point. The bugs in DS9 had plot status leading up to the destruction of a Galaxy Class. While a Danube could not go toe to toe with a bug it did hold its own making it a capable vessel for its size.

those runabouts had plot status too, they had main characters on board. every ship in that battle had plot status, the bugs and runabouts needed to not die, and the galaxy needed to die.

posted on January 4th, 2012, 12:34 pm

those runabouts had plot status too, they had main characters on board. every ship in that battle had plot status, the bugs and runabouts needed to not die, and the galaxy needed to die.

Fair enough. The Danube is an adaptable design though and multi mission capacity can be an asset.

posted on January 4th, 2012, 12:41 pm

Fair enough. The Danube is an adaptable design though and multi mission capacity can be an asset.

i think runabouts are definitely adaptable and have many uses, but i don't think they have a use in a big fleet battle like in fleetops. if they dont get auto targeted then they wont do enough damage, and if they do anything useful such as stick bombs to the sides of enemy ships, then they will need to be auto targeted and will suck up all the fire from an entire fleet, wasting loads of that firepower.

posted on January 4th, 2012, 12:53 pm

the runabout isn't a warship, or a science ship, or anything else for that matter; its a shuttle. a realy good shuttle capable of some low-importance missions or short-range scouting/researching. but the mini-torpedo pod is just something to give it some defence against eg: low tech fighters, asteroids, placebo effect. very short-range or ferrying is the thing for this ship. not fighting. battle-field scouting is done by other "real" starships.

posted on January 5th, 2012, 12:29 am

I was surprised to see so many sides to this topic. After reading everyone's post I think the best idea is having an automatic defense of a few shuttles for a space station, so when an enemy attacks they deploy and fight off the attacker. Then again if the purpose of adding something is to change the game in a meaningful way, I do like the idea of having phasers miss targets (and there must be a way to do it that would look pleasant to the eye) I think that is much more realistic. However, shuttles are used in various scenarios as support vessals, such as when the federation first took on a dominion attack at the mouth of the wormhole in the gamma quadrant during the finale of season 2 of deep space nine. I just look at how prevalent shuttles are throughout every star trek series. Its actually crazy how often they're used, and the variety of them. I understand that people see them as completely inferior to starships or larger vessals, but thats the point isn't it, to have a variety of ships and styles. While a single shuttle wouldn't fair well against a larger vessal, a handful of them could, and have much greater manoeuvrability. Shuttles can move in close to a larger vessal much like a fighter could. This brings up the comparison of a fighter to a shuttle, well then I would argue the inclusion of a shuttle over a fighter makes sense, as shuttles are encountered throughout star trek, while fighters are barely included throughout the entirety of trek.

posted on January 5th, 2012, 12:45 am

What he said  and thats what makes them different from Star wars or babylon 5, they just add more depth and add some much needed realism to sci-fi (excluding industructable plot vessels). Phasers WILL miss occassionally, we've seen it on trek for years. I think anyone arguing those points are just doing it for the sake of it. Anyway the devs have been very quiet in this topic except to confirm the new civil shuttles around starbases, so I doubt they will be adding anything else anytime soon so there's no point arguing about it.

If phasers were to be made with a slight chance of missing then fading them out just past the targeted vessel would stop the A2 phaser mess, if its possble that is????

posted on January 5th, 2012, 1:20 am

That's awesome! 

I've love to see the Delta Flyer I know some don't like it but I am sure there are others who do!

Just had a wild idea: why not have the federation/borg mixed tech Intrepid deploy 1-2 delta flyers.

posted on January 5th, 2012, 2:31 am

it would be amazing, but then if we have that, why not have a captain's yacht for the soverign class:>