Shuttlecrafts

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 2:11 am

other ships than the defiant have dodged beams too.

beams are not hitscan.

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 2:33 am

Right, I'll concede that my memory has neglected occasions in which beams have "missed", but I'll maintain that these cases have stemmed from a) some absurd techno-wizardry or b) the writers deliberately violating their own rules for the convenience of the plot, as beam weapons are almost perfectly accurate, owing to the nature of space travel (predictable velocities) and the speed at which the energy of the weapon itself propagates (as in, the speed of light). It is patently absurd for beam weapons to miss their target when conditions are optimal or nearly so.

Exceptions do exist. Bizarre jamming that has somehow never been pondered before by the brightest minds in the Federation, and therefore without counter? Stupid, but workable. Stellar phenomena such as nebulae that interfere with targeting sensors? Absolutely. Close range? No. That's idiotic. You are not going to "outfly" a state-of-the-art computer unless you have the writers scripting your ass out of trouble.

[davel27]

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 9:25 am

Last edited by davel27 on January 3rd, 2012, 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

I would like more shuttles/ runabouts but I think they would be there just for the sake of it. Although a high ranking starship lauching its captains yacht once destroyed is a cool idea. That was done on C+C generals with the jet pilots, and they could run into vehicles and give them an extra level. 

Also lots of the smaller ships (runabouts, defient, bugs, etc) are usually very fast and/or maneuverable giving the a bigger chance to avoid phasers and a bigger chance to avoid torps.

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 9:37 am

Also lots of the smaller ships (runabouts, defient, bugs, etc) are usually very fast and/or maneuverable giving the a bigger chance to avoid phasers and a bigger chance to avoid torps.

Close range? No. That's idiotic. You are not going to "outfly" a state-of-the-art computer unless you have the writers scripting your ass out of trouble.

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 12:40 pm

phasers have explicitly been shown to be nadion particles, so there is no reason to assume that a phaser beam travels at the speed of light.

dominion beams are polarons, also might not travel at the speed of light.

disruptors may use another type of particle

plasma weapons also fire plasma, which doesn't necessarily have to go light speed.

obviously this contradicts the episodes where phasers are fired at warp,

so trek is inconsistent on the speed of phasers.

every episode has stuff to fit the plot, plot is the centre of the show, not the tech.

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 1:20 pm

What is the hit rate for phasers in FO? As far as i can tell it is 100% or close to it no matter the size of the vessel.

It could be interesting if the actual hit rate for phasers was reduced e.g 70% small targets, 80% medium, 90% large, 100% dreadnought before the application of passive abilities.

A reduction in hit rate would make shuttles & runabouts viable in gameplay and open some interesting new strategies in FO

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 1:26 pm

beams have a base accuracy of 100%

size doesn't affect that accuracy, speed also doesn't, class doesn't.

iirc currently the only ability that can make beams miss is cover fire from any ship that can cause cover fire. and that will cause every weapon to miss.

also being inside purple nebs i thinks makes weapons miss too, but that's a map thing.

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 1:27 pm

It could be interesting if the actual hit rate for phasers was reduced e.g 70% small targets, 80% medium, 90% large, 100% dreadnought before the application of passive abilities.

A reduction in hit rate would make shuttles & runabouts viable in gameplay and open some interesting new strategies in FO

Why do we even want shuttles and runabouts in FO? Is there even a solid reason? If this is an honest-to-god "feature request", the feature should usually add something to the game - and 'the pointless micromanagement of tiny inconsequential ships' doesn't cut it. You're also suggesting that beam weapons should be nerfed to an absurd degree to accommodate this change. Why? What's the point?

[JR_109]

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 1:39 pm

Last edited by JR_109 on January 3rd, 2012, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Having beams miss would be more true to the shows, but there are issues with it in game, remember how bad it looked in stock armada 2? It would still look horrible...I don't like the idea for that reason alone.

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 1:54 pm

we do indeed have plans to improve the shuttle trafic animations for the next versions including bringing back civil shuttles

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 4:05 pm

Why do we even want shuttles and runabouts in FO? Is there even a solid reason? If this is an honest-to-god "feature request", the feature should usually add something to the game - and 'the pointless micromanagement of tiny inconsequential ships' doesn't cut it. You're also suggesting that beam weapons should be nerfed to an absurd degree to accommodate this change. Why? What's the point?

It can easily be summarized in one word: options.
Adding small multi purpose craft (Runabouts) allows for more strategies.

The only thing standing in the way of viable usage of shuttles/runabouts is the oddity of having a 100% hit rate for beam weapons.

Why not kill two birds with 1 stone then. Reducing the unrealistic 100% hit rate for beam weapons allows for viable runabouts.

To be honest i fail to see a downside here: a bit more realism, more strategy options.

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 4:12 pm

It can easily be summarized in one word: options.
Adding small multi purpose craft (Runabouts) allows for more strategies.

The only thing standing in the way of viable usage of shuttles/runabouts is the oddity of having a 100% hit rate for beam weapons.

Why not kill two birds with 1 stone then. Reducing the unrealistic 100% hit rate for beam weapons allows for viable runabouts.

To be honest i fail to see a downside here: a bit more realism, more strategy options.

I don't see a problem with the realistic factor at all. but what about beams that miss? They will fly all over the place and create a rather unpleasant look.

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 4:26 pm

It can easily be summarized in one word: options.
Adding small multi purpose craft (Runabouts) allows for more strategies.

The only thing standing in the way of viable usage of shuttles/runabouts is the oddity of having a 100% hit rate for beam weapons.

Why not kill two birds with 1 stone then. Reducing the unrealistic 100% hit rate for beam weapons allows for viable runabouts.

To be honest i fail to see a downside here: a bit more realism, more strategy options.

It's not a good option; nobody will use them because they're useless. It's just more work for the Devs, who are overworked as it is. Personally, I would rather the Devs work on their own ideas, which tend to have promise.

A jacked up miss rate on beam weapons would not only remove their reason for existing, but in doing so would resurrect one of the show's greatest sins, and indeed, defining flaws.

If one phrase summarized my gut feeling here, it would be "HELL NO". That may just be me, but I don't mind playing the role of the vocal minority.

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 6:14 pm

obviously this contradicts the episodes where phasers are fired at warp,

well, technically, if two ships are flying in a subspace bubble at the same time and both ship happen to be in the same bubble, why not. the space inside the bubble is supposed to have zero speed. but unless the phasers are able to exist in both space and subspace, not only would it not reach the other ship, it would also destroy the ship its fired from.
Torpedoes, however being fired the same way, have the advantage of being detached from the firing ship and gradually penetrating the multiple bubble layers and going to subspace then coming back in normal space gradually through the enemies warp layers. But Torps can't stay in subspace for long, so they eventually get destroyed. of course.
Then the only way to see stars would be that pure energy passes through the bubble, into the ship producing long rays of either colourless or very colourful light being almost without bearing since light is made-up of matter and energy, with only energy it should not be able to keep its form, therefore doing what I just said.

this is all according to my theory. I didn't see much of the tech manuals but it should work like that.
_>
o_o
wait the topic is shuttles. umm
hi?
just to say that phasers can miss and should have a miss chance.
_>

posted on January 3rd, 2012, 6:40 pm

the subspace of a ship at warp is not much bigger than the ship (see in enterprise where the columbia helps the enterprise out). yet phasers can fire much farther, outside of the same subspace bubble, hence the phasers somehow travel faster than light.

some inconsistencies just can't be patched up without using ridiculous technobabble.

i think a phaser miss rate is a good thing in certain situations, maybe a specific role for dodging. could be hard to balance, though.