Resource Raiders/Thieves

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on August 30th, 2010, 10:48 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on August 30th, 2010, 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No beaming thru enemy shields please, if that were possible the Klingons would simply beam a dozen torpedos into the bridge of the enemy ship, or beam out the antimatter containment devices. Developing a way to beam thru shields, then only use it to steal a little dilithium (which cannot be transported without exploding btw) when you could utterly destroy fleets (even while you're cloaked!), just makes no sense at all.

Maybe a tractor beam that could tow enemy miners back to your base would be fun (a special ship equipped with a better tractor beam), could also be used to tow damaged ships just like normal tractor beam.
Also, canon seems to imply just about every combat ship had a tractor beam, why let slow unarmed constructors have all the fun? Maybe all combat ships could get a tractor beam like the one constructors have (perhaps also with the ability to hold non-Borg scouts since a D'Deridex in TNG could bring in Geordi's shuttle. Anything bigger than a scout would probably have the engines to escape so the Combat Tractor Beam would still be unique.)
Perhaps the sneaky Romulans could use the tractor beam on their special thief ship while cloaked at the cost of special energy.
Maybe Klingon thief-variant BoP could use really fast engines.

posted on August 30th, 2010, 10:54 pm

You're transporting the ore, not the refined stuff. Also if i recall correctly from the series Dilithium was relatively harmless, but Trilithium was an explosive (I've watched way to much ST)

posted on August 30th, 2010, 10:57 pm

dilithium isnt unstable. why would it explode when beamed? its a crystal substance. used as a regulator for M/AM reactions. anti-matter is dangerous. not dilithium.

trilithium was a weird thing indeed. it also inhibited nuclear reactions. allowing soren to blow up stars.

why did nobody think of doing this to the cardassian sun in the war?

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on August 30th, 2010, 10:58 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on August 30th, 2010, 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I thought it exploded whenever it came into contact with an energy beam? Hence the reason for Romulans using slaves (the result of the trope "we will use manual labor in the future.") Also why Federation used holographic Doctor slaves in that one Voyager episode. Or did the writers not even think up a good reason for the slavery?

posted on August 30th, 2010, 11:00 pm

Probably the latter 

posted on August 30th, 2010, 11:04 pm

I thought it exploded whenever it came into contact with an energy beam?

lol if that were true then rura penthe would explode all the time. the miners there shoot the walls to get dilithium all day long.

posted on August 30th, 2010, 11:21 pm

lol

Good, you're gonna need that.

if that were true

Also good!

then

Yup, logical, logical - very good.

rura penthe

Problem number one.
Solution: Refer to Star Trek is not internally consistent and not real.

would explode all the time.

Problem number two: we can't see Rura Penthe, so we don't know if that happens.
Solution: ask Spock.

the miners there shoot the walls to get dilithium all day long.

Problem: Refer to above Problem.
Problem four: We don't know if miners do it all night long too.
Solution: Ask Kirk, he was there!
Problem five: We don't know if they changed their operating parameters.
Solution: find a Klingon.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on August 30th, 2010, 11:25 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on August 30th, 2010, 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hack writing ("we will use manual labor in the future" is not in any way clever when you have technology that makes it obsolete and horribly inefficient (even modern U.S. coal mines use tech more advanced than Rura Penthe...)) tends to cause trouble with consistency and rationalization.

Now, can we forget the Dilithium thingy and talk fun gameplay ideas? 

posted on August 31st, 2010, 1:21 am

Rura Penthe wasn't really a dilithium mine.  It existed purely to punish people, especially Klingons.  'You broke the law...so for the rest of your life, you're going to do almost worthless manual labor, be spit upon, with no chance of any honor'.  The dilithium mining was just so that it could worth something to the Empire more than a mere prison.

As for explody dilithium, no, it's not unstable.  It's an energetic catalyst, thus why it's used in a warp core instead of diamonds.  Hit it with energy, it serves to amplify it.  That's why they can't beam it or replicate it.  It's one of the only things that absolutely must be moved physically.  You can use highly advanced tech to harvest it, but you won't be using phasers and repulsors and tractors or transporters.  You'll be using monomolecular blades, and earth moving equipment.

posted on August 31st, 2010, 7:04 am

Nice idea although perhaps only certain races should get it.  Its not really Federation or Borg.  Maybe even avatar specific, so TaQ'roja gets it but Martok doesn't.  Would make sense.  Could also encourage more people to choose the Klingon she-bitch instead of Martok.

As for the mechanics, as long as you can only steal a small amount - say 10 di or tri at a time (ie: 10/5-10 seconds) with a limit of 50 di before you have to return to the mining station to offload, then it really is only a harassing factor and not overkill.

However, i'm not sure the game engine as it is could support this activity.  An easier way would be to let them mine directly from the enemy moon, basically make them mining ships, but that's not really what the OP was suggesting.

posted on August 31st, 2010, 12:34 pm

Rura Penthe wasn't really a dilithium mine.  It existed purely to punish people, especially Klingons.  'You broke the law...so for the rest of your life, you're going to do almost worthless manual labor, be spit upon, with no chance of any honor'.  The dilithium mining was just so that it could worth something to the Empire more than a mere prison.

As for explody dilithium, no, it's not unstable.  It's an energetic catalyst, thus why it's used in a warp core instead of diamonds.  Hit it with energy, it serves to amplify it.  That's why they can't beam it or replicate it.  It's one of the only things that absolutely must be moved physically.  You can use highly advanced tech to harvest it, but you won't be using phasers and repulsors and tractors or transporters.  You'll be using monomolecular blades, and earth moving equipment.

thats wrong. rura penthe was explicitly identified as a dilithium mine. no question about it, no way to refute it, its pure 25ct canon, it's primary purpose was to get the dilithium. they accomplished this using slave labour in the form of prisoners.

dilithium isnt a catalyst, i dont have a clue where u get this idea from. its a regulator of M/AM reactions, it doesnt catalyse or amplify those reacions, just regulates them so they dont explode the ship.

we saw on screen miners using a directed energy weapon/tool (looked like a lazor) of some sort to mine dilithium. yet it definitely wasnt exploding in their faces. dilithium isnt hard to beam, not hard at all. its a crystalline element, that is perfectly harmless in close proximity to humans.

posted on August 31st, 2010, 12:35 pm

If I remember correctly  on one of the A2 modding sites(AFC?)  there was either a compleate  Mod or a addon  to  Add the Ferengie as a playable race. One of the classes of  ships  (Marauder/ aka Dakora ) had the abilities  of I think two modes of attack one was  to strip your vessel of major  system components . The other was  tractor  your vessel then to act like a miner stripping all  resourses off your vessel . I don't remember If it was for A1 Or A2 thought.I only played  may be 5 times . I had to remove it since It did not play nice with All the other  A2 armada mods that I had  Installed. It Was a real pain  to have two  opponents  like a  Klingon & Ferengie alliance  shred you ship  with torpedos  then  have to watch it slowly as it as the Ferengie slowly stripped  it  of every thing of value. I feel It would be not out of the scope of  an TaQ'roja/Ferengie Alliance  ability remember  the Ferengie Rules  of Aqusition #'s 35 & 36  "35. Peace is good for business!" " 36. War is good for business!" and Rule # 61. "Never buy what can be stolen!"

posted on August 31st, 2010, 2:12 pm

thats wrong. rura penthe was explicitly identified as a dilithium mine. no question about it, no way to refute it, its pure 25ct canon, it's primary purpose was to get the dilithium. they accomplished this using slave labour in the form of prisoners.

dilithium isnt a catalyst, i dont have a clue where u get this idea from. its a regulator of M/AM reactions, it doesnt catalyse or amplify those reacions, just regulates them so they dont explode the ship.

we saw on screen miners using a directed energy weapon/tool (looked like a lazor) of some sort to mine dilithium. yet it definitely wasnt exploding in their faces. dilithium isnt hard to beam, not hard at all. its a crystalline element, that is perfectly harmless in close proximity to humans.

I could throw people into a coal mine that I don't like, in horrible working conditions, with ineffecient mining equipment, and still call it a coal mine.  Doesn't change the fact that I'm really using the place to punish/torture them.  I just happen to be getting coal out of it at the same time.  As for the lasers, that's pretty easy.  You don't use it on the crystals.  You use it on the rock around the crystals.

posted on August 31st, 2010, 2:15 pm

What if it was specifically focused on raiding supply ships?

posted on August 31st, 2010, 2:18 pm

What if it was specifically focused on raiding supply ships?

Then it could only be useful against Dominion....