Race Specific Resouces

posted on May 4th, 2009, 10:57 pm

i hope he accepts the supply ratio thing... would make managing them interesting

I'm not sure i quite understand your supply of the dominion idea. However it seems to have very little downsides...

If you max out then you simply stop building ships? Or Can't build anymore...

However the mechanic allows you to SPAM ships much quicker than any other race in the game.... Not just bug ships but any ships (lots of supply late game could result in death)

Just doesn't seem to fit right, but perhaps you could explain it in a little more depth (give an example) because i think i'm having a stupid moment and failing to understand the suggestion.

[Anonymous]

posted on May 5th, 2009, 12:00 am

Last edited by Anonymous on May 5th, 2009, 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, I just ventured the idea and didnt actually flesh it out. It was in line with what Dirc suggested.

To recap:

Supply would be more like K-cel white for the dominion. K-cel white is consumed by the jemhadar, as well as is measured to ensure supplies are retained for future use. Without sufficient supplies the jems die off, and the founders always ration it accordingly.

I recommend we see something similar in game as Dircome suggested.

Supply costs for dominion ships should be removed. instead ships will be constrained two-fold
1. ship to supply ratio - if supplies deplete to an unfavorable supply-ship ratio then building stops.
2. gradual consumption of supplies by each ship for the lenght of its existence.

in our case, we have 200 starting supplies. At this time there can be x amount of ships derived from this amount. x is dependent on class of ship - for example 2 V-13s or 20 jem fighter scarabs.

now, as each ship is created, each ship (again based on size) will start to deplete the total supplies at a steady rate. the more ships u have, the quicker it depletes supplies (like a reverse incubation center effect).
once the supplies reach 0, the crew start to die off on each ship and station at a steady rate (stations will not reduce suply, but crew there on need +ve kcel to live).

At this point, yes I do not mind seeing the jems able to spam jem fighters.. V-13s should also be constructed at a faster rate than the sovs etc. however, the higher the number of ships the quicker the depletion. Plus, the ratio to supply issue will be a constraining factor.

However, if a player tries to spam early on, the rate of depletion will be high such that he will end up kiling off himself while trying to kill the enemy.

He will be able to research upgrades to allow a more efficient use of K-cel supply, but those will be like optimizing an incubation center (a slightly lower rate, nothing to change the dynamics).

this will bring the dilemma of the dominion to the fore as has always been - while production is easy, keeping themselves alive after such production itself is a trick to manage.

the ratio and depletion is where balancing of the race comes into play.
The rates will and limits will be so defined to assure balance based on stats, firepower, crew etc.
Allowing again for unique gameplay for a unique race - the Dominion, while bringing their inherent trait of rapid ship building to the fore.

hope this helped clarify. I know i did not phrase my initial idea properly.


Note - this applies for dominion units.
In the mixed tech breen avatar, the breen cruiser and breen battleship will be free form this constraint (of course of -ve supply is reached, the station which builds the breen ship wll be at 0 crew.

Breen ships will have the same supply cost they currently have, they will not deplete the supply once created, but of course the supply cost will reduce the available supplies and impact the supply-ship ratio.
Let me know

posted on May 5th, 2009, 12:24 am

This is very close to my original idea however you stated it more clearly.

posted on May 5th, 2009, 12:25 am

yup, that's what ive stated too   it's based on what u suggested 

posted on May 5th, 2009, 2:45 am

I think the supply as a resource is fine already, as for the mentioned idea, it could be useful as a race specific additional resource.

posted on May 5th, 2009, 5:04 pm

that's fine too. K-cel white as a resource.
would require an additional facility to convert supply to k-cel. then this resource would not entail a ratio, just a reserve that is depleted based on teh number of ships alive. if it hits 0, crew on all installations snd ships for the Dominion start to die.

Would like to see this, along with an increase in the ship building speed for the jems. this would by its very nature hinder spms

posted on May 5th, 2009, 6:07 pm

Serpicus on closer reading the idea is not what i first thought. I like it and it seems very "thematic" to the Dominion... Obviously considerable play testing would be required but would allow interesting senarios like the initial "mass thrust" that the Dominion made in DS9 to arise...

Of course just like in DS9 if you can stall them and cut off supply amount (by destroying mining bases presumably) then you can kill them..

Would make for some interesting dynamics playing with and against the dominion. Suddenly people might knowingly ignore dilithium and tritanium to attack your K.White facilites to hit supply and in a round about way your actual fleet

Good idea and thanks for the more indepth post 

posted on May 6th, 2009, 1:17 am

I know that Optec wants to keep the klingon, federation, and romulan built style the same however i really like silent93s glory and honor ideas. I hope they can be included in a future patch. Pretty please 

posted on May 6th, 2009, 8:01 pm

How about, when K-White runs out, instead of killing the crew, it just reduces the fire rate and build speeds (and other stuff) to about 10% of its normal rate, to show how incapacitated they are without it.
To balance that, make them even more effective when it's not run out...

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:07 pm

Hmm .... the founders' idea behind the white wasn't  nurturing (=>supplying with stuff) Jems but to ensure their obedience, even though programming them genetically. I think ingame-white should reflect this somehow. Concerning the idea of supply, every other race is more dependant on supply (=>nourishment/medical supplies) than the Dominion.

posted on May 11th, 2009, 9:12 pm

yup. for the founders it was a means of control. if the white ran out, the crew of Jems DIED.
that was how the founder regulated them and maintained control over them.
so crew deaths is intrinsic in the real feel of k-cel white.

especially for keeping the realistic feel of dominion speedy ship building. the K-cel ratio and management must be maintained as the only way to maintain dominion anti-spam, as spamming is the dominon calling card, not ship build time and not supply restrictions.

posted on May 11th, 2009, 10:07 pm

The Borg version of supply seams to be Drones unless i am mistaken

posted on May 12th, 2009, 6:42 pm

it should be.. which is why many of u requested that assimilator beams add to the supply at a certain rate.

dunno how far that idea went into 3.06 or is planned for 3.07

posted on May 13th, 2009, 7:49 am

neither nor, assimilator beams already recrew the assimilator, thats enough bonus in addition to well.. assimilation 

posted on May 13th, 2009, 7:52 am

it should be.. which is why many of u requested that assimilator beams add to the supply at a certain rate.

dunno how far that idea went into 3.06 or is planned for 3.07

That was me

neither nor, assimilator beams already recrew the assimilator, thats enough bonus in addition to well.. assimilation 

I didnt know that but have you ever lost any borg ships to boarding anyway (except the builder)