Nova refit at tier 3 Eraudi Yard

posted on October 30th, 2011, 8:58 pm

How would you folks feel about making the nova refit, currently rare warp-in, buildable as a tier 3 ship from the Eraudi yard.

Tier 3 Eraudi should prevent early game nova refit/E2 combo. Thoughts/ideas.. post em here.

posted on October 30th, 2011, 9:05 pm

Well I like the idea of making it more accessable somehow, but it's so remarkably powerful that it would have to be implemented very carefully .

I could see it becoming one of the higher-tier mixed tech rewards.  Something that you have to EARN

posted on October 30th, 2011, 9:12 pm

oh god please no, not even if it got its own chassis level above level 3. not even if it cost a million billion of every resource to even make the build button appear. god no dont ever let that monster be buildable.  :crybaby:

but seriously its like the ambassador used to be, hits very hard, runs very fast and isnt made of paper. thats a deadly combo.

currently its balanced by being very rare. but sadly that leads to luck changing games. if your enemy rushes warpin and their first warpin is rhode island+centaur then you are dead. in the long run the powerful warpin ships are balanced, but with one really lucky draw you can totally change a game. i remember getting a kill on a fed, i got his first monsoon. then the warpin came with centaur+rhode island. rolled my expansion and my main moons so quickly.

even as mixed tech, it will either be ignored, or become the crux of strats, kinda like dread is used. people either ignore the mixed tech dread, or make it their primary force in the strat.

i like the rhode island, but that ship is as close to chuck norris as fleetops will ever get.

posted on October 30th, 2011, 9:13 pm

Well I like the idea of making it more accessable somehow, but it's so remarkably powerful that it would have to be implemented very carefully .

I could see it becoming one of the higher-tier mixed tech rewards.  Something that you have to EARN

That was why i proposed to place it in tier 3 of the eraudi yard.

But going by the mixed tech route for a moment, which faction mixed tech would you propose?
AFAIK the only ones who had quantum torpedoes were the spoon-heads and they will be an NPC faction.
Capture Cardasian constructor to gain nova refit and dreadnought missile?

posted on October 30th, 2011, 9:33 pm

@Andre -  Well I don't think it's QUITE the crazy thing that Myles is making it out to be .  Part of it's immense power in real games comes from the fact that it can (with a little luck) come SO early in the game.  As a very late-game vessel it would be much more balanced - but it would have to have some special considerations even as mixed-tech.

  Right now (as far I know) it's balanced as a warpin.  If it were to be buildable in any respect it would need to be looked at again .  It's essentially the Nova, only bulkier with an AOE and Self-Buff ability.  That's pretty nice, but if it were tier 3 as you put it, the number of things out there to stop it would increase as well.  Intrepids/Kvorts/Bugs/Leahvals are much earlier in the tech tree and could be available in strong numbers to meet a tier 3 threat.

 
  Regarding it's mixed-tech usage: I have no idea .  I'd love to see it as a reward for sciency-things.

posted on October 30th, 2011, 9:45 pm

140 speed, medium range with the defence of an akira. the only things that can equal that speed are far lower tech and for other races are usually made of paper (s2/brel/shrike). and those are usually short range. its like defiants but faster.

in fleetops, higher tier stuff is usually stronger, so if we assume a late game rhode island:

late game ships will die as they can never catch it and are big torpedo sponges.

that leaves the earlier game stuff. anything slow will never catch it, so you're left with brel/s2/mon/shrike/scube

scube dead to millions of quantums. brel/s2/shrike are made of paper, and none of them counter medium range. the brel and shrike might do better due to pulses and the rhode island being a destroyer instead of a DEATH STAR. but i'd wager the 28 def ship against a bunch of 14 def ships any day. just run around like mad, as long as you are already moving away from them when they start chasing they cant catch you as your speeds are equal and you have the head start.

posted on October 30th, 2011, 9:57 pm

The nova refit/E2 combo is powerful, but the NR by itself is vulnerable to pulse weapons.
By placing it at tier 3 there would be an abundance of those to counter it.

It has the defense of an Akira by numbers but not the durability (Akira Defense patterns) but it takes extra damage from its most likely counters (almost anything Romulan/Klingon and nebula warp-in).

As long as it is high tech and costly it should be fine to introduce the nova refit as a buildable unit IMO or i would not have proposed it in the first place.

posted on October 30th, 2011, 10:49 pm

The nova refit/E2 combo is powerful, but the NR by itself is vulnerable to pulse weapons.
By placing it at tier 3 there would be an abundance of those to counter it.

but all the pulse counters are far lower tech. without a direct counter its not a fair matchup. later game ships are more cost effective in fleetops.

It has the defense of an Akira by numbers but not the durability (Akira Defense patterns)

it lacks the special, but has something that requires much less micro, 140 speed, it can practically always run away.

but it takes extra damage from its most likely counters (almost anything Romulan/Klingon and nebula warp-in).

it takes extra damage from stuff with pulses. these ships also need to have 140 speed to stand a chance of keeping up. thats the brel and shrike.

the only other things that do more are things with hdsg. leahvals/kvorts mainly. kvorts sound great then, and i wont argue, they would be good for the first kill on decloak. but if the fed just keeps running, the speed difference will show, 1 kill will be the limit as the novas (novae?) run away. leahvals are dead vs lots of torps, and have the lower speed as well.

think of all the ships with 140 speed and how tough they are, they are nearly all made of tissue paper. remember the ambassador used to be faster and the special had practically no drawbacks, the ambas was just cruel as it nearly never died. the current defiant is similar, but it thankfully is not 140 speed, and has short range. the rhode island has blistering speed for its medium defence. things that are fast tend to have shorter ranges and weaker defence, and once the novas get out of the range of the chasers, the fight is over as they can just keep going.

i'd feel a lot more comfortable with the rhode island had 130 speed instead of 140. would make it more like the defiant.

posted on October 30th, 2011, 11:38 pm

@ Myles - I think the point of this thread was to discuss ways it COULD be integrated, not to find reasons why it SHOULDN'T be integrated, you know?

  You don't think even as a mixed tech ship it could find a way into the tree?

posted on October 31st, 2011, 1:48 am

Nova refit should be very expensive (like, not as cost-effective to build and upgrade Novas as it is to build Sovereigns), and take quite a bit of time to complete. We don't want a Disruptor Rhienn situation all over again.
Mixed-tech seems kind of harsh however, since then you'd almost never see even one.

posted on October 31st, 2011, 1:51 am

130 Speed could work,but it'd be slaughtered by Shrikes.

Many of the counters are available at lower tiers and will swarm the map by the time the NR comes into play.
The decloak advantage is also not to sneeze at, canaveral is only a little slower and can kite it for some time at long range with quantum pulses.

I do not deny that the NR is a strong vessel, but there are sufficient counters available.

posted on October 31st, 2011, 1:56 am

what about it being mix tech only for Risner avatar and whatever race?

posted on October 31st, 2011, 2:15 am

what about it being mix tech only for Risner avatar and whatever race?

It'd be even more rare than it is today.. 

posted on October 31st, 2011, 9:33 am

That was why i proposed to place it in tier 3 of the eraudi yard.

But going by the mixed tech route for a moment, which faction mixed tech would you propose?
AFAIK the only ones who had quantum torpedoes were the spoon-heads and they will be an NPC faction.
Capture Cardasian constructor to gain nova refit and dreadnought missile?

The Cardassians didn't have any torps on their ships . They had plasma torps on their mixed-tech defense platforms but that's all.
It is small, has speed and a lot of firepower - sounds like Klingons for me. (deadly combo: imagine a fleet of Novae and EdJen  )

@Myles: I think you've made your point. Should the Nova be implemented I'm sure it would get tweaked as well.

posted on October 31st, 2011, 10:23 am

The Cardassians didn't have any torps on their ships . They had plasma torps on their mixed-tech defense platforms but that's all.
It is small, has speed and a lot of firepower - sounds like Klingons for me. (deadly combo: imagine a fleet of Novae and EdJen  )

@Myles: I think you've made your point. Should the Nova be implemented I'm sure it would get tweaked as well.

Cardassian Dreadnought - Specs