Non-Starbase Defensive Systems

posted on April 21st, 2009, 8:25 pm

Perhaps some small defensive systems, like equal to that of a smaller ship, to help in the early game would be good. In the middle and endgame scnarios, however, you should have your defenses up and your 'yards should be back from the action.

Unless you are under attack by 20 borg cubes.

In which case, you're screwed. 

posted on April 21st, 2009, 8:43 pm

We should be clear that realism is one thing, while gameplay and overall balance is another.
When playing a game one certainly likes to have realistic elements, but realism must be in context to the overall game.
I am sure there are people who have read "somewhere" many different specifications for many different attributes. How much of that is canon or not is another question. But more to the point of the game at hand, if one wants to expand on the abilities of stations, one must then ask oneself why stations take x amount of time to build and ships take y... is that canon or realistic?
one needs to consider the resources taken to make a starbase or research facility and compare that to ship resource requirements.
Is it realistic that a shipyard is about the cost of 2 sovs? or a borg Starbase is cheaper than a borg cube?

We need to understand what realism would involve in the STU as regards actual STU cost comparisons between stations and flagships. Only after understanding this cost/build ratio can one actually speak of adjusting costs and then incorporating attributes for "realism"

Incomplete allegiances to realism without a comprehensive adoption of the same for cost and build values will not add realism to the game, but will kill basic gameplay and balance.

We do agree that it may not be realistic for an "expensive shipyard" to be built without any weapons or defenses... but then again no shipyard is seen as having a cost of 1200 dil and 800 tri with a sov costing 800 dil and 400 tri....or a bop costing 250 dil with 160 tri....

I do hope you get my drift in regards to value of a unit ingame vs cost and then decide on realism.

posted on April 21st, 2009, 9:00 pm

You are right about gameplay comes first and realism only secondly. FO implements a speed-cap depending mainly on the vessels size, which is absolutly unrealistic, even for StarTrek, but quite necessery for the known gameplay. It is obvios that a enchancment of e.g. yards with weaponary must go together with a price adaption. A highly armed yard should probably cost twice it's current price, but this doesn't fit the wellknown construction layout. But when the incorporation of armed yards is a broad request, it still can be done by implementing a yards refit, certainly at the cost of several sovereigns.

posted on April 21st, 2009, 9:16 pm

Maybe as you get bars on the ships, it will translate to station defense points.  That way the further into the game you get, and more bars you get, the more defenses you get.

posted on April 21st, 2009, 10:52 pm

Which leads to the question..... Why not have some sort of experience system for stations too.

I mean there are people on stations too, and they learn. I guess after building the tenth ship of a class, they learn to do it better or at least faster. The romulan intelligence center shows that it can be done, so why not combine the idea of this thread with experience for stations.

It´s very annoying if one tiny enemy ship takes down one of your stations and you can just hope that you get your ships there before the enemy blows the station into bits. A mining station of course shouldn´t be a match for any dedicated battlecruiser, but certainly a dom bug should die horribly. 

posted on April 21st, 2009, 10:56 pm

Which leads to the question..... Why not have some sort of experience system for stations too.

I mean there are people on stations too, and they learn. I guess after building the tenth ship of a class, they learn to do it better or at least faster. The romulan intelligence center shows that it can be done, so why not combine the idea of this thread with experience for stations.

It´s very annoying if one tiny enemy ship takes down one of your stations and you can just hope that you get your ships there before the enemy blows the station into bits. A mining station of course shouldn´t be a match for any dedicated battlecruiser, but certainly a dom bug should die horribly. 

Actually I agree that at least shipyards should gain rank. I think this is possible because of the buildxp command in the odf (maybe even planed??)

posted on April 21st, 2009, 11:20 pm

another idea is maybye they have a few runabouts, such as the ones with torpedo launchers and phasers as seen in ds9, and you can launch them from the station, and then control them as a group, but maybye they can only go out a certain distance,

posted on April 21st, 2009, 11:20 pm

oh boy!

posted on April 21st, 2009, 11:21 pm

Isn't that the same as the Fighters idea I suggested?

posted on April 21st, 2009, 11:33 pm

well it is an it isnt, my idea is pretty much like having 5 runabouts, and you can select each individual one, and they have like 5-10 crew, or maybye 5 delta flyers, actually delta flyer would be better, but anyway, you have those, and there a little stronger then a scout, but they can only use there weapons to protect the station in a certain range

but they can be selected individually and controleled unlike the fighters, but of course the station would have maybye a point defense special and maybye a pulse phaser turret built in? (weaker then turret)
or maybye just a small maybye 13 power turret

also it might be better if you had it more race specific, because with the runabouts and stff that is more federation, but at least for feds, i think miners should have a small phaser

but say for rommies, there defense might be a small (6-7 power) phaser and then a sabotage ability(sabatage only works in certain radius)

and kligons might (kinda like the current miner situation) click a button to divert all power to weapons (which stops all other operations for a set amount of time AFTER being activated) and then have the firepower equivalent of a turret

dominion maybye just has there shuttles ram into a targeted ship

borg.......borg dont get anything cool, if they need defenses to defend from an inferior race it makes them imperfect, but if necesary maybye they get the ability to instantly assimilate one ship (maybye make a class power or crew limit) with a large cool down time

now maybye this might be better just for mining, as mining isnt a part of a base usually, but i think what we need is just a small outpost, with like 50-100 people on it for all races, that has some contruction abilities (such as for feds built a saber scout or moonson, along with the contruction and mining, BUT at a slow rate, for kligons could build tompay mining constuct scout and brel) repair facilities (also a slower rate) so yeah....

hope you like it

posted on April 22nd, 2009, 2:52 pm

I think all or most Klingon stations should have full on weaponry, rather than just tiny phasers that are only there to look cool.  In exchange they lose the ability to create normal weapons platforms, maybe make everything cost more as well.  It would fit the Klingons if you could opt to build either an unarmed or armed version of most stations (unarmed costing as much as they do now, armed costing quite a bit more) without the ability to add weaponry once they're built.

Federation might have the option to refit some of their stations with weaponry, but only a select few like mining outposts, shipyards that aren't mixed tech, and SFC.  The refitted stations would also have full on weaponry, because if you're going to do something there's no point halfassing it.  I think the Federation should still have the option of building defensive platforms.  Alternatively to all this, maybe the Federation could be given an ability to link their defensive platforms to make more powerful defensive arrays?  You never really see a lone floating platform in any series.

Romulans already have station cloaking, which could be beefed up a bit; maybe the Tal Shiar station could be given some more direct specials with a limited range for defensive purposes, along the line of traps.

Dominion could be given a couple more perimeters to do whatever they like with.

The Borg are interesting, but I think as soon as the holding beam is made more useful they'll be fine for defense.  If they're weak defensively, some of the larger stations could be given multiple holding beams (and if they're not doing it right now because I don't remember correctly, automatically engage holding beams on ships if their special weapon autonomy is full).

posted on April 22nd, 2009, 4:23 pm

I have always wondered why the outposts didnt have any fighters?? Also if anyone is crazy enough to fly a fighter it should be the klingons but they dont have fighters.

well it is an it isnt, my idea is pretty much like having 5 runabouts, and you can select each individual one, and they have like 5-10 crew, or maybye 5 delta flyers, actually delta flyer would be better, but anyway, you have those, and there a little stronger then a scout, but they can only use there weapons to protect the station in a certain range

There is only one delta flyer and its still in the delta quadrant. Also it would be weaker than the scout, because they messed up the voyager series.

posted on April 22nd, 2009, 4:50 pm

Delta Flyer II returned with Voyager years before FO is set and a Federation scout is not stronger than the Flyer (unless you mean bigger scouts like the Sabre). If I remember correct, it is a canon Federation/Borg mixed-tech ship.

posted on April 22nd, 2009, 4:52 pm

Ok sorry i can never seem to get the time line correct. However its hard to say how strong it actually is because of the way to voyager messed up the borg...

posted on April 22nd, 2009, 5:06 pm

I agree the delta flyer is stronger.  Her is a real sise comparason between thr delta flyer, and the "Venture class" just because.