New use for a old ship

posted on January 28th, 2009, 7:14 pm

It seems like the Federation mentality is to keep the older ships around because for most things they are good enough for the job, expecially in peacetime.  Why not send an Excelsior to represent the Federation to some outlying worlds with a low chance of running into big trouble.  So as a warp-in ship it makes a lot of sense.
The Dominion war looked to be very tough on the older classes of Federation ships.  In the episodes with the big battles many Excelsior and Miranda class ships were destroyed and let's be honest pretty much out classed all around.  Looks like the Federation got caught with their pants down
I like the new versions of these ships, that looks like a good idea that the Feds would have, same basic space frame with new technology like a bigger warp core weapons and better hull materials but much less retraining of the crew.  A nice quick fix to get them to fighting strength again.  I would also think that the Borg conflict and the Dominion war would have stuck a boot in their rears to force them to develop bigger, better and faster ships so they won't get hit like that again.

[Phoenix]

posted on January 28th, 2009, 7:22 pm

Last edited by Phoenix on January 28th, 2009, 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If fleet ops was a few years after the war (even 15 or so years after) then I'd still consider it a "recovery period" for the Federation. Afterall, at one point, the Federation was losing hundreds of ships per major engagement. Not only that but they also suffered severe damage to their infrastructure during the war and so I'd say that it would not be unusual for the remaining Excelsiors to continue to serve for some time after the war to keep the numbers of the Federation bolstered. Especially while the Federation repairs it's infrastructure so they can build new ships quickly and efficiently. A small fleet of good ships could end up attracting unwanted attention from opportunistic neighbours compared to a larger number of average ships with a few good ones. I would probably expect after 10 years or so for 90-95% of the remaining Excelsiors to have been removed from service with suitable replacements in their place.

On this basis, I still think that the best place for the Excelsior is as a Warp in. It's not unusual for outdated ships to serve alongside their replacements for a great number of years after introduction of the replacement class. That mentality is reflected in reality. The Royal Navy recently completed HMS Daring, a new Type 45 Destroyer, which pulled in at Portsmouth Harbour today. The Type 45 class is designed to replace the long serving Type 42 destroyer many of which are currently deployed on active duty but the exchange won't be completed for a number of years. HMS Daring is only the first of 6 ships on order and while those other 5 are being built or planned, HMS Daring will be on active duty serving alongside the Type 42's already in service. The Royal Navy will no doubt slowly phase the Type 42 out but it won't be totally out of the picture until the 6th Type 45 is completed and has a bit of mission time under it's belt.

I don't think that the Excelsior needs a special purpose. Considering how upgradable the ship is you could maybe have it as a one off "refit" ship for the Federation but other than that I think it's fine as it is currently intended to be implemented.

posted on January 28th, 2009, 7:25 pm

When people point out how often the older ships were destroyed, do they remember that the newer warship Akira's were being slaughtered just as fast?

posted on January 28th, 2009, 10:44 pm

After the dom war many where distorted and bean have bean lost of the years they are not many left the oldest ship in seruse I would say would probably be the galaxy the ones not lost in the dom war.

The dominion war took out a lot of the older ships.

posted on January 28th, 2009, 11:29 pm

A lot of Excelsiors (and Mirandas for that matter) were lost during the Dominion War but that was inevitable regardless of whether they were old or not since both of those two classes alone formed the bulk of the entire fleet. It's easy to say they were lost because they were too old and crappy to fight a modern war compared to newer ships like the Akiras and Sovereigns (even Galaxy's) but you still have to remember that a lot of the newer classes were still somewhat rare (EVEN the Galaxy's). Depending on your sources at least 9 Galaxy class ships were operational during the war and even less Sovereigns. Compare that to the hundreds of Excelsior class ships (and Miranda for that matter) floating about and it soon becomes apparent that regardless of how good an Excelsior is, it will always have a bad attrition rate compared to any newer ship.

The Dominion War did take out a lot of older ships but the reasoning is not as simple as "they blew up because they were old" , especially for the Excelsior class.

posted on January 29th, 2009, 12:14 am

Honestly, thinking about it...there's no reason to phase them all out of service.  The hull design was built -around- a Transwarp core.  The moment technology for the Federation catches up to the original Excelsior build, they already have a platform custom-crafted to mount a more powerful drive system than anything else the federation currently has.

Now I'm hoping for a new Borg mixed-tech Excelsior-class with a working transwarp drive.

posted on January 29th, 2009, 12:36 am

I'd vote for that! The remaining exelsiors as purpose-made borg tec prototypes with a real and working transwarp drive, finally! yay!

posted on January 29th, 2009, 4:01 am

transwarp We don't know if it works it never had the chance to be used it was sabotaged thanks to Scotty.


The basic structure of the ship was tested and designed to last this long. Up grades become harder to install. things brake down fast. there is no mystery left for the enemy they know what they are up against and easily can deal with it.

posted on January 29th, 2009, 4:10 am

When you're dealing with a ship that has a functional transwarp core, things get alot harder to predict.  Enhanced structural integrity fields, much higher-grade shields, possibly even phasers that normally can't be powered on anything less than a light station or part of the Mars Defense array all become real possibilities.  All due to the massive power output.  The feds likely can't easily build power relays to handle that transfer rate throughout the ship, but once again, with 7's specs, they probably can.  The big problems would come in the fact that they'd have to heavily retrain the entire support crew, because in the federation, there's 5 people who can maintain and modify anything borg-tech.  7, Picard, Geordi, Data, Crusher.  It'd be at least 8 years after Voyager's return for them to just get a new engineering program set up to be able to build, modify, and maintain that technology on even one ship, much less to make multiple.

But it would be a beautiful, lovely, fear-invoking ship!

posted on January 29th, 2009, 5:00 am

I hope you guys are kidding. Some of you anyway. lol.

posted on January 29th, 2009, 1:41 pm

"Transwarp" in the movie era is a different thing to the "Transwarp" the Borg have.

According to background books and interviews, the Transwarp that the Excelsior had was just a variation of standard warp drive, that used a subspace field shaped like a tunnel instead of a bubble. In fact, the Excelsior wasn't the first ship to do this, as the Constitution-class ships Defiant and Enterprise had both done this (seen in TMP, the "wormhole" effect, caused by an imbalance), The Excelsior was designed specifically to be able to cope with the instabilities this system used, and be able to stay in control. Unfortunately, it failed, and was retrofitted with a standard warp drive system.

I know, it's not "canon", it's background information, but I don't believe that the two "transwarp" drives are the same thing, just because they have the same name.

As for making it a mining ship... you have GOT to be joking.

You do know, that when the Federation refitted its ships to stop the Dominion Polaron weapons passing through the shields, they may not have had time to do it to ALL of the ships... So the ships with priority (command ships, eg Galaxy class) got it done first. Ships like the Excelsior and Miranda were later in the queue, so it never got done. (Also explains why we see no shield effects)... THAT is why they all goet destroyed, not because they were old.

posted on January 29th, 2009, 2:37 pm

As for making it a mining ship... you have GOT to be joking.

Unfortunatly, I don't think he was.

posted on January 29th, 2009, 4:45 pm

Not at all, I cant think of another way as I have said before to have it in the game and make cents for its design and age.

There no resin why it can be related to mining other then people saying so. In Nattier a car is not a car its a heap of metal, rubber and glass, Its only a car because we say so. The Excelsior is a not a star ship in natter is a heap of metal and other materials is only a star ship because we say so, same go's for its function. I hope you get what I am saying.

"Transwarp" in the movie era is a different thing to the "Transwarp" the Borg have.

According to background books and interviews, the Transwarp that the Excelsior had was just a variation of standard warp drive, that used a subspace field shaped like a tunnel instead of a bubble. In fact, the Excelsior wasn't the first ship to do this, as the Constitution-class ships Defiant and Enterprise had both done this (seen in TMP, the "wormhole" effect, caused by an imbalance), The Excelsior was designed specifically to be able to cope with the instabilities this system used, and be able to stay in control. Unfortunately, it failed, and was retrofitted with a standard warp drive system.

I know, it's not "canon", it's background information, but I don't believe that the two "transwarp" drives are the same thing, just because they have the same name.

As for making it a mining ship... you have GOT to be joking.

You do know, that when the Federation refitted its ships to stop the Dominion Polaron weapons passing through the shields, they may not have had time to do it to ALL of the ships... So the ships with priority (command ships, eg Galaxy class) got it done first. Ships like the Excelsior and Miranda were later in the queue, so it never got done. (Also explains why we see no shield effects)... THAT is why they all goet destroyed, not because they were old.

posted on January 29th, 2009, 5:05 pm

When you're dealing with a ship that has a functional transwarp core, things get alot harder to predict.  Enhanced structural integrity fields, much higher-grade shields, possibly even phasers that normally can't be powered on anything less than a light station or part of the Mars Defense array all become real possibilities.  All due to the massive power output.  The feds likely can't easily build power relays to handle that transfer rate throughout the ship, but once again, with 7's specs, they probably can.  The big problems would come in the fact that they'd have to heavily retrain the entire support crew, because in the federation, there's 5 people who can maintain and modify anything borg-tech.  7, Picard, Geordi, Data, Crusher.  It'd be at least 8 years after Voyager's return for them to just get a new engineering program set up to be able to build, modify, and maintain that technology on even one ship, much less to make multiple.

But it would be a beautiful, lovely, fear-invoking ship!

Errm, FO takes place in 2395-2400. Why wouldn't the Execlsior be able to handle a Transwarp Drive?

posted on January 29th, 2009, 5:14 pm

No Transwarp for Feds... Even in Startrek Online (official licence) which plays in 2409 they don't seem to have it.