Multiple death animations

posted on March 21st, 2012, 3:42 pm

we've also seen ships knocked out of warp because the nacelle took a direct hit. and by coast, i didn't mean that the saucer coasted at warp, i meant it dropped to high sublight speeds and coasted sublight. the saucer has no warp field. it has no nacelles.

They still never said that they dropped to sublight.  The stardrive stopped while the saucer kept going at what appeared to be warp.  Of course, the stardrive arrived at farpoint first which means the saucer had to be slower in some way, but it only took them ~50 minutes longer to get there.  They would have to be really close to be only 50 minutes away at anything but above light speed.  At least within the solarsystem as it can take around 5 hrs for light to cross half of our own solarsystem(sun to pluto).

And really, for what reason would they slow down continually?  Wouldn't they simply stay at the same speed indefinitely unless they were acted on by a gravitational force?

then we have the stupid episode where that klingon woman is fired in a torp casing as a mode of transport. a warp sustainer makes some sense , but how did they fit inertial dampeners in that thing? also the ship that shot her like a torp would need to be going at warp, it's hard to imagine that the torp could accelerate to much faster than the ship anyway. they never seem to cross the distance between ships very fast when at warp.

What if she was just stored in a pattern buffer inside the torpedo? 

[Anonymous]

posted on March 21st, 2012, 3:55 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on March 21st, 2012, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

They still never said that they dropped to sublight.  The stardrive stopped while the saucer kept going at what appeared to be warp.  Of course, the stardrive arrived at farpoint first which means the saucer had to be slower in some way, but it only took them ~50 minutes longer to get there.  They would have to be really close to be only 50 minutes away at anything but above light speed.  At least within the solarsystem as it can take around 5 hrs for light to cross half of our own solarsystem(sun to pluto).

And really, for what reason would they slow down continually?  Wouldn't they simply stay at the same speed indefinitely unless they were acted on by a gravitational force?

that's newtonian physics, warp drive isn't achieved simply by going really fast. it's achieved by getting involved with subspace ridiculous amounts of technobabble which would make newton spin in his grave. warp gets you there quicker, but not by accelerating to a higher speed. so decelerating wouldn't happen either. my best guess is that when you remove a warp field, stuff returns to normal space and physics, and hence once again the speed of light is the speed limit.

What if she was just stored in a pattern buffer inside the torpedo? 

actually that one was debunked directly in canon because transporter signals degrade when stored and not rematerliased. they probably did that on purpose so that cargo bays didn't become a ridiculous thing and tech becomes op.

posted on March 21st, 2012, 4:02 pm

that's newtonian physics, warp drive isn't achieved simply by going really fast. it's achieved by getting involved with subspace ridiculous amounts of technobabble which would make newton spin in his grave. warp gets you there quicker, but not by accelerating to a higher speed. so decelerating wouldn't happen either. my best guess is that when you remove a warp field, stuff returns to normal space and physics, and hence once again the speed of light is the speed limit.

Sure, so they drop out of warp, but continue to travel at .99999 the speed of light.  Once again, never actually stated in the show.  Still seems to me though, that they would have had to be traveling faster than that unless they were already within the solarsystem.  Like I said, At light speed, it would take more than 5 hours just to cross half of our solarsystem.

actually that one was debunked directly in canon because transporter signals degrade when stored and not rematerliased. they probably did that on purpose so that cargo bays didn't become a ridiculous thing and tech becomes op.

Unless, of course, Montgomery Scott is involved.

[Tyler]

posted on March 21st, 2012, 4:07 pm

Last edited by Tyler on March 21st, 2012, 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Still in the Jenolan's pattern buffer at the time. Even though it was possible for brief times, it would likely be considered far too dangerious for an Ambassador.

posted on March 21st, 2012, 4:29 pm

Sure, so they drop out of warp, but continue to travel at .99999 the speed of light.  Once again, never actually stated in the show.  Still seems to me though, that they would have had to be traveling faster than that unless they were already within the solarsystem.  Like I said, At light speed, it would take more than 5 hours just to cross half of our solarsystem.

even that's not believable, since travelling that fast would lead to timey wimey relativistic technobabble of its own. the numbers in farpoint just don't add up. like a lot of trek. segue into....

Unless, of course, Montgomery Scott is involved.

yup, some terrible inconsistency there. but several reasons exist to make that a weaker source of info:

1) that was an emergency (read: stupid as fuck) procedure.
2) voyager came later and made very clear to retcon that whole rubbish out, by specifically saying that transporter signals degrade. they made an active effort to get rid of the old stupid idea, hence they weaken the old canon.
3) scottie is too awesome to obey the laws of physics, technobabbly physics or otherwise. scottie CAN change the laws of physics whenever he damn well pleases, he's just that awesome. probably the universe can't understand a word of his thick scottish accent, so it just lets him do whatever he wants. funnily enough scottie has been played by 2 people, doohan and simon pegg, neither are scottish.

also i doubt you could fit a transporter/power systems/computers all inside a torp casing.

Still in the Jenolan's pattern buffer at the time. Even though it was possible for brief times, it would likely be considered far too dangerious for an Ambassador.

i don't think she cares much about safety, she flies in a hollowed out torpedo. she'd go by riding on nyan cat if she could. she wouldn't even ask for a spacesuit.

[Anonymous]

posted on March 21st, 2012, 5:03 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on March 21st, 2012, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So wait... we actually resolved an argument?  On this website?  That wasn't entirely off topic???   

posted on March 21st, 2012, 5:22 pm

So wait... we actually resolved an argument?  On this website?  That wasn't entirely off topic???   

certainly not, we've definitely gone potters bar in here, we were originally talking about multiple death animations, then it got onto wc breaches and now we're just taking a shit all over trek canon inconsistency cos we're a picky fandom.

posted on March 21st, 2012, 5:29 pm

I tried to find some reliable numbers to estimate how damaging a WC breach would be compared to a photon torpedo so the whole debate about the strength would finally be resolved.

Sadly enough, along with dozens of other inconsistencies, Star Trek does not use simple quantifiable units like km/h or meter.

Sometimes i hate trek science.

posted on March 21st, 2012, 5:34 pm

You make it sound like the habit of using their own units of measure is a bad thing...

posted on March 21st, 2012, 5:47 pm

You make it sound like the habit of using their own units of measure is a bad thing...

it has advantages and disadvantages.

+: they don't need to worry about accuracy and hence don't need to pay for science guys to correct their numbers. they can just use iso-whatevers and not worry if we will soon overtake that. especially with bytes, usings bytes is a really bad idea with the amount of improvements technology seems to make. so they just use quads.

-: it sounds like ultra strength bullshit most of the time. and they still can't stay consistent with made up crap, like how voyager can store orders of magnitude more data in its computer than the enterprise D, yup that made no sense at all.

-: no real science can be applied as this isn't science, it's almost all fiction.