Idea for klingons supply.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 10:41 am

Similar ideas were brought up before in this thread: Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Klingon supply gain

Firstly, I was thinking, if a veteran is killed, it could generated some supply, thus veterans wouldn't be a total sink of potential supply.

Another idea I had, was that maybe a veteran could have a button (maybe only available at or below 50% hull strength) called "assassinate the captain (with honour)" or something where the ship loses all it's ranks, but you gain some supply and of course the ship can rank up again to gain even more supply. (Would be very fitting for the Klingons I think)

The most popular idea in that thread was that veterans generate a slow trickle of supply.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 11:12 am

we are currently considering moving Klingon supply gain from "on-levelup" to "during-battle". What do you think about this change?

"on-levelup" sounds more Klingon to me, as "during-battle" supply gain can not decide if the battle is actually going to your favor, or if your brels just got slaughtered. Might lead to some undesired side effects like players sacrificing their ships for supplies, or something. On the other hand, if there is a random chance involved, supply gain might not be that controllable to do these nasty tactics. The good part is, that veterans do still produce supplies.

What's the communities feedback?

posted on May 9th, 2011, 11:20 am

This might be tricky to balance; how about trickle of supply during battle but loss of some supply upon destruction? So it doesn't pay to be overly frisky. I like the idea of 'during battle trickle' in general though.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 11:25 am

i prefer the idea of in battle to generate the supply, but as you say it has the problem that if you get your arse kicked you still get as much supply.

maybe it could be linked to how much dps you do, so if u get beaten down you do less dps and therefore get less supply. or maybe to how many kills you get irrespective of ranking if dps isnt possible.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 1:53 pm

On battle doesn't really reward micro (doesn't matter if you try and get ships out of battle anymore), but does reward kiting heavily (Sang, K'beajQ, K't'inga Rush importance goes up dramatically) - I can imagine quite some scenarios where all you need to do is deal damage to get supply.

Combined with Klingon's zero-cost cloak this essentially means you can go from expansion to expansion, and as long as you just attack for a few seconds and cloak out, you'll gain supply without even having to kill anything (and thus would reward either a losing player, or a player in a team game as a 'supply horder'). Against the Borg, this especially causes some issues, because so long as you are dealing damage, you can get supply - what that means is you don't have to take risks against ships like Spheres or Cubes anymore, but instead can kite/attack a bit when lower on supply, retreat and repair, repeat, while Borg cannot repair. I think this would result in a lot of pretty unbalancing tendencies and am not at all for this. 

posted on May 9th, 2011, 2:08 pm

on rankup has its issues too as it means klinks cant play defensively, these issues would be had for the new suggestions as well, just to a slightly lesser degree. klinks cant defend, they have to attack, but feds for example can easily defend with no supply penalty. the way to beat someone who plays defensively/turtles/etc is to expand and have better economy, but the klinks can hardly afford that as their supply is directly linked to getting rankups.

maybe if a small amount of supply is given for dealing damage, and more given by getting kills. so 20% of supply needs can be satisfied by just shooting them, and the other 80% needs you to actually get kills. it would mean that klinks can play defensively a little better, but would still need more attacking urge than other races.

another idea would be to reduce supply buy costs, but also reduce the amount given by getting rankups, so that the klinks still use rankups for supply, but can survive long enough against a defensive player and expand.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 2:12 pm

on rankup has its issues too as it means klinks cant play defensively

Are klingons portrayed to be defensively? I think Klingon gameplay should create the need to play aggressively; It makes a very canon impression.

another idea would be to reduce supply buy costs

This actually sounds good. However I wouldn't change the supply given by kills, I'd say that supply-buying for Klingons gets the taste of Borg's "Resistance is futile!" for their CC's.

So for 600d/600t Klingons would get 50-75 supply.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 2:21 pm

There are faction differences all around - you can't play Romies like Feds, Dominion like Feds, or Romies like Klingons either etc: the Klingon player gets the most reward for choosing battles and playing aggressively. Romies in most build orders cannot sit passively, and neither can Dominion (especially against cloakers), as they are reactive factions. Currently you will likely be forced to buy supply after Mijural Romies, and several times after Dominion (and depending on build orders, sometimes after Feds. Most players make the mistake of staying low in the tech tree, especially with supply ineffective units like the K'beajQ and K'Vort - if you do that with other factions (like the Romulans and Dominion) you'll get out-teched and countered, but Klingons have enough tier 1 goodies that they can stay there for awhile and only get punished by supply drops.

It may be feasible to introduce some supply gain just in battle, but as a major component I just see too many issues.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 2:26 pm

It may be feasible to introduce some supply gain just in battle, but as a major component I just see too many issues.

Gaining supplies in battle would be balanced if limited to veterans and may be specific units on rank 5; Vor'Cha, Negh'Var and Bor'tas may be.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 2:26 pm

Are klingons portrayed to be defensively? I think Klingon gameplay should create the need to play aggressively; It makes a very canon impression.

thats a good point, but it leaves you fewer options against a turtling fed. if they turtle on main and 1 expansion, you cant hope to produce as much on same number of moons and u dont turtle, cos supply will run out so fast. the best way to beat a turtler is to expand and out resource them, but klinks cant really afford that either cos their main source of supply is rankups.

i was thinking about a station for klinks that generates supply for them, the station is maybe called "warrior's hall" or something like that, klinks associate honour with halls for warriors to head butt each other in and have statues of kahless and dahar masters etc. so this hall is a big building, no weapons, weak defences, not for combat. and it generates supplies like an incubator. but the condition is that it only generates supply if its shields are at more than 75%, ie the visiting/local warriors are comfortable (klingon equivalent lol) and not in battle. if they are in battle then obviously the enemy has come to you and you can rank up your ships killing them. but if the enemy leaves you alone for long periods then you get supplies from the station. so if the enemy plays normally you build ships to rankup for supplies, but if they play defensively, you build a hall of warriors to have klingon sports/batleth competitions etc, which generate supplies and allow you to expand and exploit their lack of map control.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 2:30 pm

i was thinking about a station for klinks that generates supply for them

Please, no tech-mirroring. The Incubation-center thing should be exclusively for Borg. However, your warrior's hall (I like it) could be an alternative to the Moq'bara-station.

Special Station warrior's hall (passively increases the supplies gained for destroyed enemy ships and stations by 50%)

posted on May 9th, 2011, 2:40 pm

Please, no tech-mirroring. The Incubation-center thing should be exclusively for Borg. However, your warrior's hall (I like it) could be an alternative to the Moq'bara-station.

Special Station warrior's hall (passively increases the supplies gained for destroyed enemy ships and stations by 50%)

its not really tech mirroring imo cos attacking it will make it stop generating supply.

the idea of station that increases supply gain on rankup is clever, but if they turtle its still hard to get any kills without risking your supply expensive ships that work better against normal players.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 2:41 pm

its not really tech mirroring imo cos attacking it will make it stop generating supply.

the idea of station that increases supply gain on rankup is clever, but if they turtle its still hard to get any kills without risking your supply expensive ships that work better against normal players.

Nah, it basically is tech-mirroring because unless it's attacked it'd work exactly like an incubation center.

And the turtling thing... well; either you prevent it or you die with honor like a true klingon

posted on May 9th, 2011, 2:49 pm

Nah, it basically is tech-mirroring because unless it's attacked it'd work exactly like an incubation center.

And the turtling thing... well; either you prevent it or you die with honor like a true klingon

it would have a cap of 1, and would only be your supply source in 1 exact circumstance (enemy plays defensively) while the incubator is meant to be built in numbers and will always be your only supply.

and sometimes its hard to prevent turtling if they never leave their base with their ships. yes you can beat turtlers, but it makes the game sooooooooo boring. the common strat to beat turtlers is to control the map in precisely the way they cant, but that doesnt work well for klinks. leaving you having to kill the turrets with what you got, which can be so boring at times.

posted on May 9th, 2011, 3:08 pm

it would have a cap of 1, and would only be your supply source in 1 exact circumstance (enemy plays defensively) while the incubator is meant to be built in numbers and will always be your only supply.

I still stay with my suggestion of having an alternative special station for klingons that raises the kill-gained supply by 50 % when on the field.

and sometimes its hard to prevent turtling if they never leave their base with their ships. yes you can beat turtlers, but it makes the game sooooooooo boring. the common strat to beat turtlers is to control the map in precisely the way they cant, but that doesnt work well for klinks. leaving you having to kill the turrets with what you got, which can be so boring at times.

Why doesn't that work well for klingons? They can cloak, they are fast and can upgrade speed;

also they have safe-distance killers like the Sang and the powerful tank-backbone Vor'Cha.