HSA ideas

posted on January 25th, 2011, 6:02 pm

The HSA is against slow moving vessels, stations and players, that dont look onto the battlefield.

The HSA is FINE in my eyes. You can destroy it swiftly and silently, it cant fire back and you dont have to fear anything, if you have fast and agile ships. The HSA is perfects for the dominion war machine but lacks... you may see it, effective strikes against ships. It will deal double damage to buildings, like the bomber does, like everything from the dominion does, but in order to wipe out ships, you have to go the good old way...

While turtling is a valid strategy for mayson, HSA is a valid strategy for dominion. Klingon and rommies have cloaking devices and the borg will beat you to the punch with pure mass. I think, the HSA is okay.

Sure, if you were a rommie, you would think "I want to have the same... only 350 dil to spend in order to kill off a base" but... wait, the rommies have the serkas.
Then you go with the klingons and hey... red mist of death... Okay, but the borg dont have an... oh, a cube that goes nom nom through the fleet and boards all small ships on his way. But at least the federation cant do a suprise attack or... damn warpin. Tadaa - everything solved.

posted on January 25th, 2011, 6:42 pm

I dunno .... it's got 74 Defense and is SUPER cheap to replace.  It also has no minimum range so once you pounce on it, it can just blast you after you stop and you'll have a hard time getting out of the blast range.

posted on January 25th, 2011, 7:40 pm

The HSA is against slow moving vessels, stations and players, that dont look onto the battlefield.

The HSA is FINE in my eyes. You can destroy it swiftly and silently, it cant fire back and you dont have to fear anything, if you have fast and agile ships. The HSA is perfects for the dominion war machine but lacks... you may see it, effective strikes against ships. It will deal double damage to buildings, like the bomber does, like everything from the dominion does, but in order to wipe out ships, you have to go the good old way...

While turtling is a valid strategy for mayson, HSA is a valid strategy for dominion. Klingon and rommies have cloaking devices and the borg will beat you to the punch with pure mass. I think, the HSA is okay.

Sure, if you were a rommie, you would think "I want to have the same... only 350 dil to spend in order to kill off a base" but... wait, the rommies have the serkas.
Then you go with the klingons and hey... red mist of death... Okay, but the borg dont have an... oh, a cube that goes nom nom through the fleet and boards all small ships on his way. But at least the federation cant do a suprise attack or... damn warpin. Tadaa - everything solved.

1 of the romulans avatars main ships are small yard ships same as the klingon female, the HSA is OP vs them and is not very easy to kill anyway since it is very long distance and you can keep them behind the main fleet and retreat them after firing, they have enough fire power in my eyes and are very cheap to make.

perhaps youd like the devs to add a giant phlanx cannon that can drill a hole through a planet to go with its already op artilery weapon. When it fires on stuff it doesnt even give an alert to say your under attack so if your not watching your enitre fleet is gone.

posted on January 25th, 2011, 8:33 pm

No need for sarcasm. The HSA cant take out a Tavara and the smaller ships can even when visible get out of range. Remember that the HSA got nothing to defend itself, only the large cannon. Sure, it is a little tricky to stand against the dominion war machine of many, small and chep ships. You fight on your frontline and boom, the HSA for cheap money is about to kill your retreating ships or even worser, the rush goes into your base.

Here is my suggestion: Dont make the HSA do damage against buildings. If the HSA ONLY does damage against ships, it will pretty outbalance with the abilities of the other dominion ships with siege-capacity (C-17, B-2, Dreadnought)

So you can use the HSA only against ships and this will be tricky, because you have to hit smaller ones to be effective, but small ones can go out of the detonation-range.


Or just another approach: The Dreadnought got this nice ability to disable ships... why not for the HSA? The HSA will disable ships for some seconds that are within the blast-radius, deactivating their engines and weapon-systems. Shields, sensors and life support will remain active. You will lose the ability to do devastating strikes against bases but might have a nice frontline-ability. Also: Make it friendly fire. If allied ships or even your own are within the blast radius, those ships will also suffer from it. So its moe or less an artillery, forward strike that gives you a domination of about 8 or 10 seconds in the beginning of a clash.

I think, this would be far more balanced. Other races got the same abilities in a similar way: Sensor blockout, polaron-field + red neb of death (I like this combo) and so on.

posted on January 25th, 2011, 9:57 pm

No need for sarcasm. The HSA cant take out a Tavara and the smaller ships can even when visible get out of range. Remember that the HSA got nothing to defend itself, only the large cannon. Sure, it is a little tricky to stand against the dominion war machine of many, small and chep ships. You fight on your frontline and boom, the HSA for cheap money is about to kill your retreating ships or even worser, the rush goes into your base.

Here is my suggestion: Dont make the HSA do damage against buildings. If the HSA ONLY does damage against ships, it will pretty outbalance with the abilities of the other dominion ships with siege-capacity (C-17, B-2, Dreadnought)

So you can use the HSA only against ships and this will be tricky, because you have to hit smaller ones to be effective, but small ones can go out of the detonation-range.


Or just another approach: The Dreadnought got this nice ability to disable ships... why not for the HSA? The HSA will disable ships for some seconds that are within the blast-radius, deactivating their engines and weapon-systems. Shields, sensors and life support will remain active. You will lose the ability to do devastating strikes against bases but might have a nice frontline-ability. Also: Make it friendly fire. If allied ships or even your own are within the blast radius, those ships will also suffer from it. So its moe or less an artillery, forward strike that gives you a domination of about 8 or 10 seconds in the beginning of a clash.

I think, this would be far more balanced. Other races got the same abilities in a similar way: Sensor blockout, polaron-field + red neb of death (I like this combo) and so on.

A tavara is a battleships and romulan avatar that mainly uses the small yard only gets 1 tavara so that yard isnty commonly used even in larger online games.

Iv seen the HSA used in online games many times and its proven to be just too powerfull vs a fleet of small yard vessels. Even vorcha its op agaisnt.

Last week a massive fleet of my vorcha were hit by double HSA around 25 vorcha were in that fleet, none survived. I may have been able to save them but at the time they were attacking a mining expansion and i moved over to my base that was under attack, i never even got an alert to say id been hit ,by the time i clicked back to my vorcha only my 2 vet vorcha were alive and were both dead before i could pull them away. Those HSA are just too powerfull so this whole thread about giving it more weapons i find completely insane, i want it dulled down or removed not given more fire power.

Remember the threa about giving the steam runner more weapons lol... but this thread asking for the HSA to have more weapons? WTF

posted on January 25th, 2011, 10:35 pm

Iv seen the HSA used in online games many times and its proven to be just too powerfull vs a fleet of small yard vessels. Even vorcha its op agaisnt.

not proven, i dont think its op

Last week a massive fleet of my vorcha were hit by double HSA around 25 vorcha were in that fleet, none survived. I may have been able to save them but at the time they were attacking a mining expansion and i moved over to my base that was under attack, i never even got an alert to say id been hit ,by the time i clicked back to my vorcha only my 2 vet vorcha were alive and were both dead before i could pull them away. Those HSA are just too powerfull so this whole thread about giving it more weapons i find completely insane, i want it dulled down or removed not given more fire power.

i just tested this and 2 hsa cant kill an undamaged unranked vorcha. even if the vorcha takes 100% of the damage.

posted on January 25th, 2011, 11:17 pm

not proven, i dont think its op

i just tested this and 2 hsa cant kill an undamaged unranked vorcha. even if the vorcha takes 100% of the damage.

WTF are you talking about EVERYONE knows it can annihilate a fleet of small ships like destoyers,cruisers or supports. From what iv seen thats its main use iv seen elim wipe out fleets using this.

So sure your right not proven since it doesnt need proving its known.

Yes it can my entire fleet of vorcha disappeared with the HSA blast in the middle

posted on January 25th, 2011, 11:20 pm

WTF are you talking about EVERYONE knows it can annihilate a fleet of small ships like destoyers,cruisers or supports. From what iv seen thats its main use iv seen elim wipe out fleets using this.

no, that is what YOU are saying, not what everyone knows. i think you will find that you are the lone voice here.

Yes it can my entire fleet of vorcha disappeared with the HSA blast in the middle

instead of repeating your flawed claim, why dont u go test it for yourself? you will then see that you are wrong. i can assure you, i sat there and watched the hps drain from the vorcha, and it didnt die.

posted on January 25th, 2011, 11:38 pm

Either way if it is true or not, I think the HSA should work in another way as it does now, damage factor high or not.

A disabling "subspace negative energy wave" is way better to use. Reasons:
- The dominion already got good attack-power of their ships. You dont need "more", you need more of a "make that more effective" like the +100% damage station of the klingons (Here I must say I never see me using it - I just forget it in the middle of a fight)
- While the dominion ships often get siege capacity, we need something, that will do the other way around --> Good against ships
I think, the dominion should get a HSA that works pretty well against BORG, because the dominion lacks against them. With klingons, I can withstand the borg. With fed also. With dominion, I get problems and rommies are going down against borg... I cant even beat the Borg-AI with rommies (but thats another topic)
- HSA would be devastating against cloaked units. Just make a ping, set it up and boom, enemy down
This is a flaw you can use if if done right, you take down the enemy in one strike. I dont think, that this is really intended.

Conclusion: Make the HSA not damaging but disabling effects, like the dreadnought does. So it is then more of a support-like arty. I could live with that and it isnt OP because you need real ships with real firepower to convert this situation into an advantage. Without offensive ships, it would be useless, like the serkas, that is useless without support, or the steamie.

posted on January 26th, 2011, 12:30 am

I think the best sum of the reasoning here looks like, if anything need be done at all, that a replace-weapon to give it some short-range PD-style torpedoes, as an "Oh-Shit I'm Getting Swarmed" last resort, might add an interesting element to the HSA.  That way, when I'm playing "Giant Imperial Fleet" (And don't tell me some of those Dom ships don't look like Star Destroyers) I can toss those guys in the mix as command ships or something.  That would be fun, I believe.

PS:  Sheva, your idea with the cannon playing havoc on sub-systems (possibly a rank-up feature?)  is nice, but it should certainly still do the damage.  It's a big cannon.  Big cannons aren't known for not wrecking-up the place.  I don't want to live in a world where they don't!  Why would you imagine a world like that?!

Pictured Below:  Bonus Gratuitous Space-Carnage!

Attachments

posted on January 26th, 2011, 12:34 am

Kestrel is actually right on this.  HSA is insanely powerful, particularly in team games...  Two with the weapons upgrades can destroy fleets of cruisers... 

posted on January 26th, 2011, 2:11 am

The HSA is not over-powered.  It just over-powered you.

Of course, the old adage applies here:  If you sit on your ass long enough to let your opponent  build a SUPERWEAPON... Or "Two with the weapons upgrades"  Well, some people might think that you wanted to lose.

What kind of genius watches a couple of giant space cannons lumber across the map, and then lets his main fleet take a direct hit from a big slow gun that even gives you a warning not once, but twice.  That's what you get for turtling, while expecting the other team to do nothing but wait for you to amass enough ships to come and pave them over. 

YOO HAFF GUD STRATUGEE.
Here's a checklist of things you have to do wrong for that to happen:
-Lack of mining harassment allowing opponent to leisurely tech-up to insane level necessary for HSA.
-Lack of scouting to discover enemy building two giant space cannons, which take a long time to build.
-Lack of scouting to discover giant space cannons crawling toward "entire fleet of Vorcha" spam-fleet
-Lack of counter-attack against giant space cannons before they get into firing range.
-Ignoring Countdown Warning, allowing 2 HSA to land shot in "the middle of my fleet"
-Letting both HSA land direct hit without trying to dodge.
-Probably sitting there wondering where all your spaceships went.
-Still sitting there...  Kind of wondering what those two big ships are where your fleet used to be.
-Probably Dying.

Out of curiosity, if it actually was an online game, who was your opponent?  I'd love to hear their perspective.

posted on January 26th, 2011, 4:42 am

YOO HAFF GUD STRATUGEE.
Here's a checklist of things you have to do wrong for that to happen:
-Lack of mining harassment allowing opponent to leisurely tech-up to insane level necessary for HSA.
-Lack of scouting to discover enemy building two giant space cannons, which take a long time to build.
-Lack of scouting to discover giant space cannons crawling toward "entire fleet of Vorcha" spam-fleet
-Lack of counter-attack against giant space cannons before they get into firing range.
-Ignoring Countdown Warning, allowing 2 HSA to land shot in "the middle of my fleet"
-Letting both HSA land direct hit without trying to dodge.
-Probably sitting there wondering where all your spaceships went.
-Still sitting there...  Kind of wondering what those two big ships are where your fleet used to be.
-Probably Dying.

Out of curiosity, if it actually was an online game, who was your opponent?  I'd love to hear their perspective.

1. Try keeping up effective harassment on one opponent, constantly, in a 2v2. Defintiely possible. 3v3? not so much. 4v4? Yeah, good luck with that.
2. It's not that fast, but it's not exactly a Conduction Matrix.
3. Unfortunately, any decent opponent tends to have those slow, defenseless cannons surrounded by combat vessels. Additionally, no one scouts perfectly. Dominion players are second in sneakiness only to Romulans. And in team games, well, no one has seen that massive fleet of Vor'cha in a while...
4. See #3. Also, getting in range requires getting close. Which requires hoping that your opponent is blind, and has no aim with his cannons.
5. Five seconds is not exactly an eternity. The ships that are fast enough to move away from the center of the blast are usually the same smaller, weaker ones that will get eaten by the time they exit the damage radius.
6. Once that blast goes off, almost once the counter starts, anything that was going to die is going to die. Those slow battleships that can't move away are strong enough to shrug it off; the smaller ones are dead. Whether you're a mile from a nuke blast or half a mile, you're still taking a hit from a nuke.
7. They died. See, while you sir were able to defend, expand, micro, and harass seamlessly, all while making fleet movements that both outflanked the enemy fleet and kept you from being an easy Hyper target, the rest of we mere mortals were trying to do ten things at once, something that is difficult to do flawlessly unless you are omnipotent and omniscient. Boggz should have a strategy guide up for those last two traits sometime next week.

posted on January 26th, 2011, 4:47 am

Prof J you're welcome to play online with us sometime .  Elim will show you the meaning of HSA pain

posted on January 26th, 2011, 4:47 am

Nuke em Rico!