Galaxy class torpedo special

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 6:08 pm

Further, the comparison is yet more flawed by the fact that the era equivalent to the Galaxy is not the Vor'cha, but the Negh'var.

The Negh'var Class is from the same era as the Sovereign. When the Vor'cha was new and rare, so was the Galaxy.

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 6:17 pm

The Negh'Var appears in DS9, during the Dominion War, pre-Sovereign.

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 6:21 pm

The Negh'Var appears in DS9, during the Dominion War, pre-Sovereign.

sovreign class exists alr at the time the negh'var appears

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 8:35 pm

Because, if you look back, I never said that.  What I said was that basing the determination on Dominion War loss/kill ratios was invalid due to sampling sizes.  Further you have to consider that Federation ships support one another directly, Klingon vessels don't tend to.

Further, the comparison is yet more flawed by the fact that the era equivalent to the Galaxy is not the Vor'cha, but the Negh'var.

You are comparing Cruisers and Battleships.  Just because in FO time they call the Galaxy a Cruiser doesn't mean it wasn't Starfleet's Battleship.

Um the First Vorcha seen was Chancellor (well the to be Chancellor) Galrons in a TNG Episode. Further more in another TNG episode you see two Bird of Prey's engage a Vorcha and almost win. Picard comments a Vorcha should have more than twice the Firepower of a Bird of prey.

The First Neg'Var is seen in season 5 of DS9. Just slightly before first contact took place. The Sovereign was build before first contact so one can assume that they originated around the same time.

I'm sorry the Galaxy is in the same era as the Vorcha.

The Neg'Var the same as the Sovereign.


Yes i am comparing Battleships to cruisers, war is not a friendly thing and the overall most effective combatant may be a destroyer, a cruiser or a battleship. Class must be taken into account, as well as numbers and cost. However that doesn't mean you can't compare them.

Otherwise as i keep pointing out you wouldn't have been able to compare the Aircraft carrier to the cruiser or battleship... Yet the Aircraft carrier is the current modern day conventional power projection weapon in the Global Theatre.

You cannot dismiss a comparison because it doesn't have "enough samples" otherwise a batch of 6 ships would not be built as a test bed for a class of ships. The reality is that the majority, if not all, of the Galaxy class was involved in the Dominion War. The majority of the Vorcha class was involved in the Dominion war.

The Galaxy was hardly a "rear line" ship and is seen at the direct front in many episodes, such as the one were the station is attack by klingons. The relief force is headed by a Galaxy, in "The Jemhadar" we all know what happens to the Galaxy. "Sacrifice of Angels" are just to name a few. Throughout the end of Season 6 and Season 7 we see the Galaxy class heavily engaged and mauling everything it touches for the most part!!

The Vorcha had a lower kill ratio, it had a lower kill rate, it was destroyed more often and Percentage wise (WHICH IS INDEPENDENT OF RAW NUMBERS) it is a less efficient vessel.

Im not saying 6 Galaxy out of 9 Survived.

400 Vorcha's were lost out of 2000 so the Galaxy is better because it lost less

I am saying that the Galaxy suffered 25% of its initial hull frames during the war.

The Vorcha suffered far more, your probably looking at a 33% perhaps even higher loss rate. I'll try and dig up a proper statistic.


So it doesnt matter how many there are im using percentage which avoids the problems of raw numbers... I could throw in averages as well.

The reality is that from the information we have at hand and the information in the series the Galaxy was a better science, ambassador and medical ship. It was just as good if not better at exploration and space range. It was better at command and control for the fleet and it could maul a Vorcha in a fight.

The Vorcha was cheaper and better at cloaking operations.... I know which ship i'd rather be on.

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 9:22 pm

400 out of 2000 is 20%. 

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 9:55 pm

400 out of 2000 is 20%. 

Yeah so its losing less than 3 out of 9 which is 33.33% Casualties.

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 10:39 pm

You can not answer this problem with a mathematical equation it is just not that simple. In order to do that you would have to factor in crew training and experience. The enemies numbers and experience. Your allied ships in the area and many other things. Its just not something that you easily simplify down to math.

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 10:48 pm

You can not answer this problem with a mathematical equation it is just not that simple. In order to do that you would have to factor in crew training and experience. The enemies numbers and experience. Your allied ships in the area and many other things. Its just not something that you easily simplify down to math.

No but you can compare the general class capabilities of a ship. I'm not saying that the Galaxy will always win. Of course the situation depends heavily on a majority of things. Crew skill, location, tiredness, moral, luck etcetc

What you can do is say that the GALAXY CLASS is a more efficient multi purpose exploratory vessel AND warship than the VORCHA. The Vorcha is far cheaper and as a result going to be present in greater numbers.

I wasn't just using mathematical equations however you do need to take all these things into account and on the average situation the Galaxy will come off on top.

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 10:55 pm

But fo is a combat game and most of the stuff that is in the galaxy would not get used so what does it matter if its a better multipurpose ship. I disagree that the galaxy is a better warship than the vorcha.

posted on May 2nd, 2009, 11:51 pm

The only reason people dont view the Galaxy as strong is that it was never allowed to show what it can do. The only time the Galaxy's had a chance to show what they are capable of is during the War, then they fired 1 or 2 shots before the camera switched to the glory-hog Defiant.

No Galaxy was ever show on screen using it's muscle's. Either the camer switched to the 'hero' ship too fast, they talked through the problem or the enemy had a plot-induced advantage.

By what little has been seen on the show, the Galaxy has more weapons than the Vor'cha. Too bad it only ever used 3 Phaser arrays throughout the entire series.

posted on May 3rd, 2009, 12:22 am

But fo is a combat game and most of the stuff that is in the galaxy would not get used so what does it matter if its a better multipurpose ship. I disagree that the galaxy is a better warship than the vorcha.

It matters because although its a combat game you have to base the ships and which ones are being built off the actual federation ship list.

The Galaxy is superior to the Vorcha in combat anyway. I'd like to see a reason why a bigger, more powerful ship with a larger armament and superior shields as well as a stronger hull would not be a better warship

:P it can also split into two sections and use a variety of interesting tactics in that event (Go Will riker!!)

posted on May 3rd, 2009, 6:25 am

Dont start the saucer separation argument again. Anyway if the show never allowed it to show what it can do then how can you say it can??? I dont know if you have noticed this but nowadays no one builds battleships we build aircraft carriers cruisers and destroyers, why because battleships are sitting ducks (thats a bit off topic). Also according the these pages the Galaxy has stronger shields than the Vorcha (Im not sure if those links will work right you might just have to find it on your own) but it has far more weapons a considerably stronger hull, it also has a cloaking device, and it is more maneuverable than the Galaxy. Unless i am mistaken the Daystrom Institute is a fairly reliable website so these facts should be fairly accurate.

posted on May 3rd, 2009, 10:03 am

its easy to explain why the galaxy rocked so much in the dominion war:
the dominion used a shitload small ships that attacked the bigger ships from sides where that ones couldnt fire back. Thats one of the main reasons why so many warbirds got lost. Noone is crazy enough to stay more than needed in front of a warbird ... it would be suicide. So the Attack destroyers just fired at the Warbirds from behind and the sides ... same at the vorcha s, just with the difference the klingons could at least defend em with bird of preys. The Galaxy class weaponary covers every side and can take out the small attack destroyers quite easy. This combined with very strong shields made the class so good in the war. But actually i see no way to put stuff like this ingame. Just leave the stats as it are and give it a reasonable special attack. Thats at least my opinion.

posted on May 3rd, 2009, 1:18 pm

Dont start the saucer separation argument again. Anyway if the show never allowed it to show what it can do then how can you say it can??? I dont know if you have noticed this but nowadays no one builds battleships we build aircraft carriers cruisers and destroyers, why because battleships are sitting ducks (thats a bit off topic). Also according the these pages the Galaxy has stronger shields than the Vorcha (Im not sure if those links will work right you might just have to find it on your own) but it has far more weapons a considerably stronger hull, it also has a cloaking device, and it is more maneuverable than the Galaxy. Unless i am mistaken the Daystrom Institute is a fairly reliable website so these facts should be fairly accurate.

Thats what i have been saying all along about aircraft carriers and battleships and cruisers and destroyers.

I've been quoting that since the beginning of this argument. Pointign out that they are all different classes of ships but that the aircraft carrier became one of the most capable and changed the face of battle in the modern world.
I even went so far as saying that it became the current most powerful conventional weapon of modern power projection!

Now you try and telling me what i've been saying all along.    No one understands me 


Ah we have a disagrement about sites, i use Memory Alpha which is also a well aclaimed website and even sites specific refrences.... Though the one you have quoted does seem to be viable as well.

I quess in a program when you base the ships off the show there will always be some disambiguity.

And it wouldn't be very fair only the Klingons

Afterall you have the B'rel, K'Vort, Vorca, Neg'Var and the other random improved D7 hull form.

So i guess the Vorcha falls around the battlecruiser mark for game balance.

posted on May 3rd, 2009, 7:47 pm

Thats what i have been saying all along about aircraft carriers and battleships and cruisers and destroyers.

I've been quoting that since the beginning of this argument. Pointign out that they are all different classes of ships but that the aircraft carrier became one of the most capable and changed the face of battle in the modern world.
I even went so far as saying that it became the current most powerful conventional weapon of modern power projection!

Now you try and telling me what i've been saying all along.    No one understands me 

Then you are contradicting your self.

The Galaxy is superior to the Vorcha in combat anyway. I'd like to see a reason why a bigger, more powerful ship with a larger armament and superior shields as well as a stronger hull would not be a better warship