Fog of War/Shroud

posted on May 4th, 2011, 3:08 am

To be honest, I really don't like changing this aspect of the game.  Finding things on the map is part of the game a choice in scouting.  I still sometimes screw up where exactly the moons are on duel 2 and I have played that map hundreds of times.  It's just part of the game and something I can change by scouting a bit better in the first 20 seconds of the game.

As for the shroud and determining where I have scouted.  I really use this...it lets me know that I didn't check that region yet and need to see what's going on.  Sure, it is only a one-time thing but it's helpful.  To each their own, but I do get very disorientated when the shroud and/or fog is off.

posted on May 4th, 2011, 12:12 pm

But that still has no objection to only moons being visible.

posted on May 4th, 2011, 12:17 pm

But that still has no objection to only moons being visible.

If the moons are visible, there is less reason to scout.  In an effect, you reduce the value of scouting.  I am definitely not for that.

Most of your concern can be solved by looking at the map before launch.

posted on May 4th, 2011, 2:16 pm

If the moons are visible, there is less reason to scout.  In an effect, you reduce the value of scouting.  I am definitely not for that.

Most of your concern can be solved by looking at the map before launch.

So you like the fact that people have to search for moons if they forgot to memorize the expansion locations before launch?  I really don't see what that adds to the game.  Scouting is still very useful for other purposes.  Essentially this really only helps people who have played the maps a lot and have memorized where the moons are.

posted on May 4th, 2011, 3:45 pm

My thoughts on scouting and its usefulness and purpose as a game mechanic:

At the start of the match, information is equal (except for what race, since you can go random.) Decisions you & your opponent make cause things to change, resulting in unequal information. This control of knowledge is a huge chunk of the strategy of an RTS. Scouting is a way for you to get more info on your opponent than he has on you, and your opponent can deny scouting to further their own control of information. This is why scouting is such a good mechanic, as it allows for strategic control of information.
The map, unlike your opponent, will never change. This means that you can simply memorize the map. It also means that those who have played the map before do not need to scout it or rush to memorize the moon locations off of a preview, thus leading to players starting with unequal information that isn't the result of strategic choices like going random. That isn't fair to the player who knows less about the map, as they then have to make a strategic scouting choice that their opponent might not have to.


As for most concern being taken away by map preview: This may work on smaller maps, but it is a huge pain on larger maps, especially ones where your expansion isn't obvious and moons aren't in pairs. Also, even if you do remember your expansion moons, your opponent also has potential expansion moons (and keep in mind your opponent could know more about the map, and thus know their potential expansions and yours as well.)


Now let's stop thinking about FO exclusively here for a moment (since some of us have been playing so long we may want it not to change):
In Starcraft II resource mining spots (mineral fields and vespene gas geysers) are visible on the map, much like my suggestion. Scouting is still a vital element of play (even more so than FO, arguably), and not scouting will make you lose.

posted on May 4th, 2011, 3:51 pm

Has anyone considered a special that highlights resource moons for a few seconds, like the Intelligence Report?

[Anonymous]

posted on May 4th, 2011, 10:47 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on May 4th, 2011, 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That wouldn't really help the issue at all Tyler, as it wouldn't help new players unless it was on constructors, scouts or stations.

I see a problem. In fact, I see three. I've already stated them, but I will outline them again for you.

1) It's already there. If people don't know to change the settings pre-match, they should read the manual, and experiment with the settings. It's an education issue, not a game issue.

2) All that shroud does is cover up moons and nebulae. So by showing them through it, shroud becomes pointless. The only things that shroud hides are those moons and nebulae you want to show through it!

3) By making moons and nebulae visible through shroud, you remove the players CHOICE on said issue. People currently are able to choose what they want. Your suggestion forces your own preference on the rest of us. How does that make the game better for us all?

I'd rather keep the choice, as in the current game.

I would rather have the choice Atlantis, I personally just wish more games were played like this and the issue was brought more often and informed to new players. I don't like the moons/nebs through the shroud either.

posted on May 5th, 2011, 1:03 am

Maybe we should do a poll.

posted on May 5th, 2011, 1:29 pm

Has anyone considered a special that highlights resource moons for a few seconds, like the Intelligence Report?

Now that's a suggestion I like.

And yes, it would need to be on the Starbase, but that's fine. It wouldn't make sense anywhere else anyway.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on May 5th, 2011, 4:20 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on May 5th, 2011, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe we should do a poll.

Poll up: //www.fleetops.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,3/topic,10048.0/.

EDIT: I just realized something: if you can see exactly where the enemy base moons are, it's easier to determine where to send your scout if you're a noncloaking race.