FO ignoring Trek

posted on May 9th, 2011, 7:19 am

thats an interesting theory. the allies said that they were cutting it close, hoping to nip in just before the turrets were operational. and those jemhadar bugs did go on a ramming mission. im thinking to delay the fleet for precious seconds. i prefer to think they just wrote it cheaply.

tbh i think that the allies didnt have the full fleet they wanted so made a guess on optimal time to attack with as many ships as possible  and the cardies and domis got lucky on activating the grid fast enough to do alot of damage

also tokra u linked the same thread twice just fyi
and if u were refuring (sp?) to the allies vs borg map idea i gave constructive comments and conserns with the info u provided

posted on May 9th, 2011, 8:28 am

Ships dont rank up in prime trek.... so thats kinda pointless to even mention, plus in FC I didnt see a second saber there to magically allow teh first one to fire photons.

ships do rank up in trek, otherwise captain picard would be an average captain, and cadets would be average captains as good as him etc. some people in trek are smarter than others, eg higher ranks as a gameplay mechanic. and there were at least 5 sabre's in FC (source) and its not magic, its explained in the tooltip, vet sabres got given some torp launchers (crisis suite) and when other sabres cover for them, they can fire them.

However there were always things that trek kept by and  large consistent too. And the (mostly consistent) Realism of trek (especially the way they borrow from science theroy) was one of the BIG things that made trek what it is.

if u wanna argue trek is consistent then you're crazy. canon has many many contradictions. and even if trek was written perfectly and was 100% consistent, gameplay would still be more important than following canon. because people dont play fleetops for canon emulation, they play it for fun. and the devs arent writing a new series for star trek, they dont have to follow canon to the letter if they dont want to.

Phasers on stun: Tasers (whose name is suspiciously similar to Phaser.... )

phaser stun settings werent based on taser technology as that technology wasnt invented until 3 years after tos started. the concept of rendering someone unconscious with a weapon isnt exactly something anyone can claim as their own, its a pretty general concept.

I made the mistake of asking for help on this fourm once, in those two threads.

I simply had three lines to edit, and people could play single player and test the changes.

Instead of anyone testing, I recived nothing but 'I DONT LIKE OR APPROVE OF THIS' spam, with the so called moderators like Dom ignoring it.

riiiiight, you started your posts by trolling, then expected people to mod their game just to test something for you. you didnt even release a modded file, you just told people to go make the mod themselves. you asked for a lot then cried when nobody helped you.

really, you came accross very poorly and nobody wanted to help you. same thing happened with another guy before you joined us. i suggest you go read some help request threads from other people who actually got a lot of modders to help them and see how they behaved, compare it to your "requests" and you will see why they got help and you got hostility.

I wont make the mistake of doing any actual work to contribute to this fourm, again.

Things I make may get shared, but that'd be limited to links to folks thru other methods.

k, our loss (jk not rly ).

you sound silly, like you're having a tantrum: "im not gonna give you any mods any more, waaaaaaaa "
someone call whine one one, we have an emo-gency, get us a waaaaambulance

if u hate this forum so much cos we're all meanies then why do you stay?

[Anonymous]

posted on May 9th, 2011, 11:45 am

Last edited by Anonymous on May 9th, 2011, 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thats what balance is for Zaxxon, if its to strong, you find a method to make it not over powering, such as chance to hit ratio.

You show a serious lack of experienced in modding when you make that statement.  There really is no way to balance against plot protection.  sabers are small, destroyers.  You can't make a small destroyer do what you way because it is too powerful.  If you changed that, it would no-longer fit that role and would have to be changed to something else.  Then, another ship would have to be put in its place.  And no, that is not easy to do.  And no, you can't just give a ship a torp burst when it requires no tech without making it unbalanced unless you were to make it there for effect only, meaning pointless, meaning useless work for the devs to satisfy your nitpicking need.

And how do we know that they weren't just spewing their last or only three torps in a last  ditch effort that may have heavily damaged their ship? Sounds familiar right?

This

//www.fleetops.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,3/topic,9422.0/

and

//www.fleetops.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,3/topic,9207.0/

that

I made the mistake of asking for help on this fourm once, in those two threads.

I don't see a single spot in either of those two posts where you ask for help.  As I said, you present it as a mod and people have the right not to download it and even say they don't like it. It happens all the time.  But you didn't really present it as a finished mod very well either.  A finished mod is not a post of lines of code to paste in a file, it is a file someone easily overwrites in their directory.  there are exceptions to this, but generally you should make it as easy for other modders to use it as possible.

I simply had three lines to edit, and people could play single player and test the changes.

Instead of anyone testing, I recived nothing but 'I DONT LIKE OR APPROVE OF THIS' spam, with the so called moderators like Dom ignoring it.

you mean you posted a revision of three lines and wanted people to play your mod and you got upset when they didn't like it.  Besides, you had given them plenty of reason to derail your thread considering the stuff you had done right around that time.

I wont make the mistake of doing any actual work to contribute to this fourm, again.

Things I make may get shared, but that'd be limited to links to folks thru other methods.

Thats unfortunate, however if you need help, please remember that I am willing to try to help nomatter what.  In this case, just give me a PM so you can avoid such disapproval "spam".

posted on May 10th, 2011, 2:24 am

ships do rank up in trek, otherwise captain picard would be an average captain

So picard was magically able to have a galaxy class ship with abilities that other vessels of that type didnt because he leveld up like in a RPG.

Sure, the power of jebus compelled him I guess.

here were at least 5 sabre's in FC (source) and its not magic, its explained in the tooltip, vet sabres got given some torp launchers (crisis suite) and when other sabres cover for them, they can fire them.

Veteran Saber Captain: OH WEE I HAVE A VETERAN SABER!
Science officer: SIR WE ARE STUCK IN A DANGEROUS NEBULA!
Science officer: SIR WE NEED TO DESTROY THAT ROCK IN OUR WAY TO LEAVE
Science officer: SIR, WE CANNOT USE PHASERS AS THE GASSES IN THIS NEBULA WILL IGNITE AND FOLLOW THE BEAM BACK TO THE SHIP!
Captain: FIRE THE CRISIS SUTIE!
Science officer: SORRY SIR, WE CAN ONLY FIRE THAT WHEN OTHER SABRES ARE NEARBY.




Yeah, makes PERFECT Sense!

phaser stun settings werent based on taser technology as that technology wasnt invented until 3 years after tos started. the concept of rendering someone unconscious with a weapon isnt exactly something anyone can claim as their own, its a pretty general concept.

So was much of treks tech. And yet they presented it in a nonchalant realistic manner.

riiiiight, you started your posts by trolling, then expected people to mod their game just to test something for you. you didnt even release a modded file, you just told people to go make the mod themselves. you asked for a lot then cried when nobody helped you.

Wait so it's trolling to explain how and where to make the mod to a file, and request people test it ?

[/quote]


And this is why when actually on TS, people make so many rude jokes about the fourms staff and userbase..

posted on May 10th, 2011, 2:37 am

We should also make it so that all Borg ships adapt and are immune to weapons fire after every shot.  But then, we'll have to give every other ship out there a button that remodulates their shields and weapons.  But it has diminishing returns, just like in the show.

Also, the Federation always wins, because that's just like in the show.

Also, the defiant should be able to do a loop-de-loop to get behind an enemy ship that was chasing it.

Also, all defiants should be able to two shot bugs instead of eight shot them, because that's cannon.  No, it really is cannon, defiant cannons specifically.

Also, the dominion should have to constantly get k-white or all their crew save one (the vorta) dies.

Hmmm, what other canon things should we include?

Also, we should get rid of silly passives like fast tracking weapons and Single stage energy conduits, because those weren't in the show.  Man, where's Imnotmal's copy of Fleet Ops Lite 2 when you need it?

What other canon things can you guys think up that we should add to the game?

posted on May 10th, 2011, 3:07 am

what about Saucer Seperation?

posted on May 10th, 2011, 3:12 am

posted on May 10th, 2011, 3:21 am

Voyager super armor and transphasic torpedoes?

How about a button that says focus fire on the borg waist disposal unit and lets you blow up borg ships in one shot?

How about scan for tachyon particles so every fed ship can detect cloaked ships?

and yeah Saucer separation too.

posted on May 10th, 2011, 3:48 am

Wrecking the humor side of things unfortunately, yes, it's me!

We saw in TNG that Geordie was constantly making upgrades to efficiency, as was Worf, and presumably various individuals for each ship did so with their experience. Whose to say that wouldn't include modifications to torpedoes that sniff out exhaust, or know how to take out Borg or figure out how to fire through shields... nah, who am I kidding. You're totally right, that would never happen in Star Trek 

[Anonymous]

posted on May 10th, 2011, 3:55 am

Last edited by Anonymous on May 10th, 2011, 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Remember when Geordi met the real Leah Brahams, and he was all "we in the field are constantly refining and upgrading" and she was all cranky because it was that time of the month for perfectly good reasons as I'm sure you will all agree?!!

Those upgrades and field modifications are part of what made the Enterprise better than other Galaxy class ships.  Also, the more experienced crew did indeed fair better than the crew of the Yamato, because of an experienced crew that experienced experiences that made them more experienced than others who had less experience in dealing with new experiences experiencially.  They also would have performed better than the Odyssey against the Dominion, due to plot armor if nothing else.

posted on May 10th, 2011, 5:40 am

Or or ok guys here is just a suggestion, every time tokra posts something we just ignore it because he is kinda just trolling now, sorry tokra you are. Every time the devs come up with something new its not good enough for you and when you try something apparently everyone just makes fun of it but thats actually just people disagreeing with you. Torka you have a very set view on what you see as correct sorry if we don't exactly share that view

posted on May 10th, 2011, 10:19 am

Wrecking the humor side of things unfortunately, yes, it's me!

We saw in TNG that Geordie was constantly making upgrades to efficiency, as was Worf, and presumably various individuals for each ship did so with their experience. Whose to say that wouldn't include modifications to torpedoes that sniff out exhaust, or know how to take out Borg or figure out how to fire through shields... nah, who am I kidding. You're totally right, that would never happen in Star Trek 

Oh Im not arguing that ships crew and their experince on that ship, and all of the resulting tinkering, play a good part in stuff, just saying that when it comes to the saber its silly that it can only fire photons when other sabres are covering it.

Just replace the quantum pulse with a photon with identical stats for the saber and it'd fix it.


Mal, the big E woulda died if it'd encoutnerd that virus first becasue it was the destruction of the yamato that warned the crew that SOMETHING Wasnt right, and they still barley lived.


And mal for hte borg adapting, my way of looking at it was that the federation (and other powers) advanced their weapons power to the point that the borg sheilds cease to be invulnerable, and act like normal sheilds, they take damage and go down just the same (it just takes a LOT more because they are more powerful pound for pound)

posted on May 10th, 2011, 11:26 am

So picard was magically able to have a galaxy class ship with abilities that other vessels of that type didnt because he leveld up like in a RPG.

Sure, the power of jebus compelled him I guess.

dominus already forced to you to concede that experience really does mean extra stuffs. also if u have some fancy guns (or tech) for galaxy classes, but not enough for all ships of the class, give the fancy new kit to the smartest crew who have got experience and wont get blown up soon.

this is FLEET ops, see i put the word fleet in caps? so all combat happens, you guessed it, in fleets/wars/big battles. so my idea of how crisis suites works is such:
sabres dont normally have photons, but veteran ones for big battles get given some. they dont usually have power or time to fire additional weapons as they already have 2 weapons systems to worry about (phasers and quantum pulses). but when another sabre uses a clever tactical patter to cover for them (ie causes cover fire in game) and distract the enemy from them, they can put the power from shields and their effort into the photons. thats what covering for someone is about irl, the person giving cover fire will allow the person they are covering for to increase their effectiveness.

think of this example from any fps ground combat game, 2 blue team guys are trying to cap the red flag, but a red guy is in a turret in the way and is shooting at them. so 1 blue guy runs around from place to place firing towards the turret, so the turret gunner is focussed on the blue guy that is shooting at him and moving around a lot. while the other blue guy doesnt shoot, he takes his time to aim a well placed grenade or plant some explosives or something, this guy wouldnt be able to do this if the other guy hadnt covered for him.

what about Saucer Seperation?

only if its for the ambassador, thats the only ship i can realistically see doing saucer sep.

Just replace the quantum pulse with a photon with identical stats for the saber and it'd fix it.

cant fix what's not broken, that would make it how you want it.

Mal, the big E woulda died if it'd encoutnerd that virus first becasue it was the destruction of the yamato that warned the crew that SOMETHING Wasnt right, and they still barley lived.

big e? u mean ent d? and they only got the virus from the yamato anyway, the yamato got it from the probe. but they couldnt figure out how to turn their computer off and on again, token black guy could.

and barley?

And mal for hte borg adapting, my way of looking at it was that the federation (and other powers) advanced their weapons power to the point that the borg sheilds cease to be invulnerable, and act like normal sheilds, they take damage and go down just the same (it just takes a LOT more because they are more powerful pound for pound)

that doesnt hold water, if u look at straight combat between borg cubes/spheres and fed ships (which doesnt really happen often) you see that the collective still has the adaption. look at when that tactical sphere just turned voyagers phaser beam backwards. FC cube took a bit of damage, but thats because borg ships dont have shields (i believe) and the battle had already been going on for ages with about 50 ships pounding that poor cube. then picard targeted the waste extraction and gave them a low blow.

posted on May 10th, 2011, 2:07 pm

Wait... wait... wait


Lakota


There, I said it 

So wait, ships of the same class get different weapons like quantums etc? Does that mean - nooooo - that some Sabers might get Crisis Suite refits? Uh oh... it seems that we've encountered an error in the force logic. 

posted on May 10th, 2011, 2:17 pm

Hmmm, i love spirits made of barley