Federation warpin.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 5:18 pm

Yeah, the E1s and Steamrunners might die easy, but try saying that about an Ambassador or even a Galaxy.

you will easily be outnumbered, plus galaxy isnt as good as ambassador early on, its medium range and easily countered, and its torps miss a lot. the short range ambassador is far more useful, with good speed and a brilliant special.

Even with some ships, the three warp-ins can rather quickly take down a constructor if they ignore the ships attacking them (these are ships thought of by the Fed player as completely free and replaceable remember.)

thats just rubbish, if u rush to SFC and lose all 3 (or even just 2) of the ships your enemy will have a combat fleet and you wont, they will then attack your mining, by the time they get there its doubtful u will have a turret up, as rush to SFC leaves u res drained. but even if u get 1 turret up, theres no chance of getting 2 up against a strong player, they will roll in and attack whichever moons dont have turrets, keeping u with too few res to do chassis I.

warpins may be free at point of order, but they require expensive stations and usually rushing to SFC will leave u with no fleet.

Trade bases using ships you bought while the Feds use ships they called up? That will hurt your econ more than the Feds probably.

not true, as ive already said (from experience), rushing to SFC leaves u with practically no res. not even enough for chassis I. so your enemy will have access only to sabres, need res desperately for research for better ships, they will have a few warpins on the field, and will be waiting desperately for next warpin, which should be a minute or two away, while u have crushed their mining.

I think I've pretty much summed up why warp-in is still somewhat OP, and needs to be more preventable as a raiding tool.

very confident statement, i can equally say that i have pretty much picked apart your whole argument.

Omg, have I been ninj'a by four people?

it appears so

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on June 29th, 2010, 5:26 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on June 29th, 2010, 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Outnumbered sure, but the fact remains I can kill a constructor with three ships that together cost me 800 Dilithium, 400 Tritanium, and 0 Supply.

Rush to SFC leaving me resource starved? 
My build order almost always has only one mining station for the base moon pair (recommended for close-together moons in the guide.)
By making only one mining station in my base I can get (in the following order): five miners for my base mining, SF Engineering, Chassis 1, Antares Yard, SF Science, an Intrepid, two miners for my expansion, and SFC without running out of Resources (and that's before I begin making a mining station at my expansion.)
Also I have enuff res left over to get a platform (and maybe even a mining station), the enemy only sees a platform, which is menacing enuff to stop most raiding as they don't know whether I have resources or not.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 5:30 pm

Outnumbered sure, but the fact remains I can kill a constructor with three ships that together cost me 800 Dilithium, 400 Tritanium, and 0 Supply.

not true, because you have to factor in the costs of building SS early. SS is usually built to allow SFC build. its a happy fact that it researches specials too.

Rush to SFC leaving me resource starved? 
My build order almost always has only one mining station for the base moon pair (recommended for close-together moons in the guide.)
By making only one mining station in my base I can get SF Engineering, Antares Yard, Chassis 1, SF Science SFC, an Intrepid, and two miners for my expansion (in addition to the five for my base mining) without running out of Resources (and that's before I begin making a mining station at my expansion.)
Plus the enemy only sees a platform, which is menacing enuff to stop most raiding as they don't know whether I have resources or not (and I do have resources.)

then you are playing someone pretty weak. by the time u get all that stuff your enemy should be ready. and if u have more than 400 tri then you didnt rush to SFC. by rush i mean get SFC at earliest possibly opportunity. not just build it sometime anywhere near start.

u still only have 3 warpins and an intrep. your enemy should have better.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 9:42 pm

Yep, we have no plans to change the basics of warp-in any time soon (including the faction redos). we will do some adjustments on the ship pool, especially with situational ships like artillery, but we do not intend to change the way warp-in is used. There will also be no costs related with warping in ships. A penalty for losing a warp-in ship is more likely.

Would it be feasible to add an alternate functionality to SFC, where it can return unwanted warp-in ships to free up warp-in slots for future use?  This would use same the timer, of course.

posted on June 29th, 2010, 9:43 pm

Would it be feasible to add an alternate functionality to SFC, where it can return unwanted warp-in ships to free up warp-in slots for future use?  This would use same the timer, of course.

I think that could easily be abused to get so-called "better ships" so I'd prefer to vote that down 

posted on June 29th, 2010, 9:47 pm

indeed u send a distress call, starfleet sends some excels and you're like "ewww, no take them back, i'll wait 3 minutes for the next help"

posted on June 29th, 2010, 9:49 pm

That's like Federation ships asking for latinum in exchange for help...

posted on June 30th, 2010, 1:01 am

Not everyone expands at the same time Boggz. Also depends on the race they're playing, Dominion players expand earlier usually.

  I was asking WHICH mining stations he was talking about.

And even if people don't expand at the same time, you can't use that as justification for nerfing something.


You can say THIS and expect people to agree:

"Warpins always kill my expansion builder!"

"Hmm .... really?  I'd assume you'd have things built before the Warpin comes ..."

"No, I like to make my expansions on my own time"

"...Oh... Well then you should probably expect a Warpin"

"Nu uh!  I think it should be balanced based on what ---> I <--- like to do!!!"

"Oh ... well then, no."

posted on June 30th, 2010, 7:00 am

I think that could easily be abused to get so-called "better ships" so I'd prefer to vote that down 

I'm not certain that spending an entire timer to warp away one ship could be abused, Dom.

posted on June 30th, 2010, 7:44 am

Yeah, the crying about warpins killing buildings just boggles my mind.  Last time I had warpins hit me, a pair of B'rel waxed the steamrunner easily.  I'm pretty sure they could have taken out two steamies.  However, I'll admit that the pair of excel's made short work of them after that.

Hell, I've killed steamies with K'tinga.

Overall, I'm fine with warpin.  Only things I'd like to see for it are more experimental ships.

Maybe a special Construction ship that can fit a starbase with that giant canon that we can see in the DS9 episode 'Favor the Bold'.

posted on June 30th, 2010, 3:40 pm

I'm not certain that spending an entire timer to warp away one ship could be abused, Dom.

If you are picking and choosing vessels to warp in (you didn't mention just one after all, though that doesn't change much) that goes against the idea of the distress call, as you are trying to pick a fleet, and it allows you to scrape together a fleet of whatever types you want. I'd glady wait the extra 3 minutes if I could grab a few more Ambassadors or Steamrunners if I really wanted to make a mess of things for instance. In the long run I could still amass ships that way of a particular caliber suited for the task at hand. That's inherently unbalancing unless the Warp-In percentages became based on much more specifically balanced ratios (the chance of getting two steamies now isn't that low, nor of getting two ambassies - and they both perform very very well).

posted on June 30th, 2010, 3:47 pm

Actually its funny that the warp in is meant to be some kind of distress call.So far its all, but not a distress call. Distress call means in my sight: i need help at a certain fight, i get support there and the ships that helped return to there normal service after that. Actually we got just some kind of ship spamming and wasting which has nothing to do with help in distress.

so at least in my sight: either it needs to classified as something else than a distress call, or it should be reworked

posted on June 30th, 2010, 5:10 pm

Yeah, the crying about warpins killing buildings just boggles my mind.  Last time I had warpins hit me, a pair of B'rel waxed the steamrunner easily.  I'm pretty sure they could have taken out two steamies.  However, I'll admit that the pair of excel's made short work of them after that.

Hell, I've killed steamies with K'tinga.

  The issue people mention about Warpins destroying buildings early on is a reasonable one.  If there's a steamrunner in the warpin then usually a mining station can be destroyed before the defending player has a chance to stop them.  Fall victim to a double Steamrunner Warpin and you can actually lose a shipyard to it.

  There's serious relevance there.  Losing an 800/200 + structure to a free set of ships is nothing to sneeze at.

posted on June 30th, 2010, 5:42 pm

Yep, the artillery support will move of the normal warpin team to a seperate warpin ability like the experimental warpin, to help to balance it better and allow a federation player to have better control of his or her warpins. Won't happen in 3.1.3, as we require a few more additions to get what we want for the fedies

posted on June 30th, 2010, 5:47 pm

Yeah I think that's a really good idea, Optec .