Federation Refit

[Anonymous]

posted on January 20th, 2009, 5:27 am

Last edited by Anonymous on January 20th, 2009, 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, and I'm waiting for you to prove to me (since you refer to this as 'court') that those Excelsior refits are infact refits and furthermore that they are any different than the Excelisors we've seen in TNG.

More evidence to appease the doubtful minds that do not believe:

In the Star Trek fictional universe, the Excelsior class is a very common type of starship used by Starfleet from the 2280s through at least ninety years later. The pathfinder, the USS Excelsior (NX-2000), was used as a testbed for transwarp, a new and more efficient variety of warp travel. Although the transwarp project may have been a failure, the Excelsior class design was sucessful and was put into mass production, serving for decades in distinguished service alongside the Miranda class starship as the backbone of Starfleet. In the 2370s, the Excelsior class, through periodic refits, remains a relevant force in space, with such features as type-ten phaser emitters, quantum torpedos, and a top speed of warp 9.5.

You'll note that the Excelsior continued to receive upgrades after the TNG era (2363-2370)

Here, I'll even give you one for the Galaxy Class:

The inclusion of families among the crew also proved to be a somewhat questionable policy (the Enterprise's captain once noted that while one's life is at risk whether on a starship or on Earth, Earth is not likely to be ordered into hostile territory to repel an enemy attack). At least one ship — the Yamato — was lost with its full complement, including families.

The beginning of the Dominion War suspended this policy and it has not been revealed whether or not this policy had been reactivated following the war. By the beginning of the Dominion War, three Galaxy class starships had already been lost, all of them due to damage to their warp drives: Yamato from an alien computer virus which had taken over her major computer systems, Enterprise-D from Klingon torpedoes which damaged the warp core, and Odyssey from impact damage to her secondary hull, deflector dish and starboard warp nacelle resulting from a kamikazeKamikaze ( from kami meaning "god" and kaze meaning "wind") is a Japanese word — usually translated as divine wind — which came into being as the name of a typhoon that saved Japan from a 1281 Mongol invasion fleet led by Kublai Khan. However, when used i run by a Jem'HadarIn the fictional Star Trek universe, the Jem'Hadar are the shock troops of the powerful Dominion of the Gamma Quadrant. Genetically engineered for strength and courage, they are also very short-lived and believe that 'Victory is life'. They treat the Foun attack ship. The vulnerabilities noted in the ship's warp core design (exhibited especially well duirng the destruction of the Enterprise-D) were noted by Starfleet, and steps were taken to fix the problem. Galaxy class ships during the Dominion war suffered far greater damage than the Enterprise-D and continued to fight, such as the USS Galaxy's heroic actions at the First Battle of Chin'tokaThe first year of the Dominion war consisted of two main phases; for the first six months the Allies were in a state of near constant retreat, loosing several major fleet actions to the Jem'Hadar. Throughout this period the initiative remained almost enti. The upgraded Galaxy class design operating during the Dominion War was sometimes referred to as the War Galaxy; the Venture was an example of some of the modifications the Galaxy class received. Thanks in part to these upgrades the Galaxy class suffered no major losses in the war.

Many of the Galaxy class ships in operation during the Dominion War were produced just before and during the war, with the specific goal of filling the fleets out with heavy combatants until the Sovereign class starship could be procured in numbers. Most of those ships were completed without most of the fittings of their peacetime counterparts — some ships were sent into battle with only the facilities needed for minimal crew support and heavy combat because the need for ships was so great at times during the war. It is not known how the ships were fitted following the war.

Can you even provide the slightest amount of evidence to refute the contrary or are you just going to ask more annoying speculative questions?

posted on January 20th, 2009, 6:16 am

You give 0 solid numbers, 0 exact tactical specifications and 'with such features as type-ten phaser emitters, quantum torpedos, and a top speed of warp 9.5' refers to the Lakota refit (1 off), prove to me that it doesn't. And you got it from a non-canon (and shall I say not even star trek source)! Copy pasta from Index - Indopedia, the Indological knowledgebase. Memory Alpha tends to hold a little more sway with real trekkies my friend.

And just to let you know...your finale sort of hurts your point. 'It is not known how the ships were fitted following the war.'

posted on January 20th, 2009, 7:04 am

Memory Alpha says:

Certain Galaxy-class ships, such as the USS Venture, were refitted with additional phaser strips on the dorsal surfaces of their nacelles by 2372. (DS9: "The Way of the Warrior")

By the mid 2370s, most Galaxy-class ships began operating with all three impulse engines activated. (DS9: "Favor the Bold"; VOY: "Timeless")

Unfortunatly, it doesn't have anything else about any changes to the Galaxy Class.

As for the Excelsior (since it has been mentioned):

As this class aged, Starfleet continued to incorporate the latest technology, through continued upgrades, refits and repairs, well into the 2360s and 2370s. In 2364, the USS Melbourne underwent significant repairs at Starbase 74, while in 2367 the USS Hood underwent a major system upgrade at Starbase 174. (TNG: "11001001", "Brothers", etc.)

With the impending threat of the Dominion against the Federation, Starfleet began to experiment, in 2372, with performing a refit on the Excelsior-class USS Lakota. Upgrades included improved phaser emplacements, quantum torpedoes, and other improvements to make the ship competitive with such ship designs as the Defiant-class. (DS9: "Paradise Lost")

The Excelsior was continuously upgraded and the Lakota may have been an experimental refit. If it was, the experiment seems to have been successful.

posted on January 20th, 2009, 7:43 am

And just to let you know...your finale sort of hurts your point. 'It is not known how the ships were fitted following the war.

I don't think it hurts my point, but numbers would be nice so I'll give you that. We may not have exact numbers for each class or how powerful they are but we do know the Federation keeps refitting their ships every few years or at least every decade.


We can argue all day, but the point is that there should be a refit system for the Federation since it's one of their primary characteristics. I don't think the Feds are some God race either that absolutely must have the best ships just because they are the Federation. God, if I were that pathetic I'd bury myself in tar. And look at the Tavara. Yikes! It has more than twice the power of a Sovereign. The Romulans must have hired Dominion engineers to build that monster. When you have Tavaras running around with 130 offense then hell yes the Feds need a boost! 130 offense is plain recockculous. That makes the Romulans a God race to me.

Moreover, I like playing with the Klingons and the Borg. I get sick of playing the Feds in every single game. I'd just to like the older Feds ships to get added with some more credibility.

[Atlantis]

posted on January 20th, 2009, 1:46 pm

Last edited by Atlantis on January 20th, 2009, 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't know what all the bickering is about. This is a place where we can all present our thoughts and ideas and several specific people (Atlantis) are acting like a bunch of nagging women with their overcritical remarks and nitpicking of things that are purely trivial.

LOL! Ok that's enough, calm down. You're taking this waaaaay too seriously. I made one or two comments about you whining like a little kid, and you go off like this. In fact it is YOU who is nitpicking. My argument has always been "the team have decided. deal with it" (READ my posts, you'll see for yourself). YOU are the one coming up with trivial details from websites, show clips, photos, etc etc etc. (as evidenced by your posts). Overcritical remarks?! I think you'll find you're talking about yourself there.

If you've got a problem with me, then either come here to Brazil and say it to my face, or take it like a man and shut up about it. You know NOTHING about me, and I'm not gonna let you badmouth me with crap you're essentially MAKING UP to make yourself look better.

I have no problem with any of your ideas. You have come up with some really good ideas so far. The problem is with the attitude you give to people who say anything against them. In fact, all of my posts have been 1) saying "Good idea" and developing it more, or 2) tellign you to stop whineing about it and taking it too seriously. Seriously, calm down, i'm not as much an asshole as you think I am.

[Anonymous]

posted on January 21st, 2009, 2:09 am

Last edited by Anonymous on January 21st, 2009, 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

i'm not as much an asshole as you think I am[quote][/quote]

I am calm, but apparently you're not because you demanded that I come down to Brazil and speak to your face. Ok Mr. Hugo Chavez dictator, but that doesn't sound like something a man would say at all. Real men discuss things intelligently. You just make yourself sound like a foolish kid who gets into trouble with that attitude.

What do I need to go to Brazil for? Are you going to buy my plane ticket? Yeah I'd like to see Costa Rica and get acquainted with some Brazilian babes while I'm there.

I'm glad you like my ideas but that doesn't give you the right to tell me what to do with them. I don't need a lecture from you telling me to flesh them out. I have written many excellent papers, one was on Brazilian Capoeira. If I want to be a bit lax and spontaneous on the forums I will. If you don't like it, too bad. I won't ask you to come to America and tell me off in my face. There are already too many illegal immigrants here.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I have more important things to do.

[Braunbaer]

posted on January 21st, 2009, 9:32 am

Last edited by Braunbaer on January 21st, 2009, 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Seriously....wtf?!

I am calm.

No...no you are not. Let's get back to topic. All of us.

We can argue all day, but the point is that there should be a refit system for the Federation since it's one of their primary characteristics.

Do you think the Klingons do not upgrade their ships after some years in service?
Come on....

The refit system for the Romulans (in FO) is different compared to all these Fed refits.
Now it is like: "Hey, we have this ship...or at least the body. We could use its blueprint to build..let's say...3 different ships. They look the same but they have different features. That's really cool because it reduces build or research costs."

Feds: I guess they didn't plan to build different types of Galaxy ships. They had ONE blueprint. But after some years they decided "Hey, we could enhance them a little bit." Then...they upgraded the existing ships and I guess they also updated the blueprint of the Galaxy class.


Oh and we should not forget that FO is a game. And at some point the crew shouldn't implement more features or ships...because there is no need. There really is no need for (e.g.) 30 different Fed ships...plus a refit system. That would be WAY too much. You wouldn't even build all of them...only the strongest...

The Galaxy refits were not about implementing new features....but strengthen the weapons....the sensors...

[Atlantis]

posted on January 21st, 2009, 1:57 pm

Last edited by Atlantis on January 21st, 2009, 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am calm, but apparently you're not because you demanded that I come down to Brazil and speak to your face.

Demanded? Not at all, just a suggestion. I'm just saying that if you don't have the guts to say things to my face, keep it to yourself. THAT is what real men do. It's called tact.

Real men discuss things intelligently. You just make yourself sound like a foolish kid who gets into trouble with that attitude.

That just makes me laugh. You're not discussing things intelligently. You're just repeating what I've said about you. Try being original for once.

You just brought up my name in an insulting way, when it was not needed, in a topic nothing about it, just because you're being spiteful. The attitude problem is yours.

I'm glad you like my ideas but that doesn't give you the right to tell me what to do with them.

I haven't told you what to do with them. You're being paranoid.

However, this is a discussion forum, so we are encouraged to DISCUSS things, including alternative ideas if the team don't like the original one (which they didn't).

I don't need a lecture from you telling me to flesh them out.

Again, I haven't. You're being paranoid.

I'll repeat what i've put already, several times.
READ MY POSTS. My issue is against you whineing to the team about THEIR decisions.

Fine, if you've got more important things to do, go ahead. If you're gonna be too arrogant to see someone else's point of view, then why are you even here on a DISCUSSION forum in the first place?

To all else: I apologise for the off-topic post.

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 2:30 am

Holy cow, he tells me his issue is I am whining but he's been whining all along. Oh the irony! You're just too much kid. I really think you should just let it go.

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 4:17 am

Braunbaer thanks yeah we do need to get back on topic, and atlantis, the fleet ops team havent even commented on this topic it hasnt be rejected, but if your talking bout the galaxy it has not been rejected as in game, tho sacuer seperation, may only be in emergency or somthing like that, but overall stop arguing, we need as Braunbaer said to get back to this topic and this post. MY post.

And the topic is the FED REFIT SYSTEM, so yes brabauer i see what your saying, the roms have there refits not to neccesarily upgrade ships as they get old, and maybye not even upgrade is the right word so lets say, specialize the ships to one are, for example the generix can be uprgraded to a specialized feild, such as a support vessle

but what i was mainly suggesting for the feds is an upgrade for the ships such as systems, ship value, and maybye a ability as well as some astectically, not neccesarily specialized, but then again, maybye a lakota refit, war galaxy etc, however for the miranda two and the nebula, they do have specialized pods, which i do belive need to be upgraded to different things, AND be able to change after upgrade, rember its basiccaly just renewing older ships so that they are more effective,(and i just got a great idea which i will post), and upgrading weaker ships, this is also to staisfy the need of later game stretngh for feds

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 7:40 am

to quote myself: the attributes of Federation vessels are completely in line with the balancing formulas and I couldn't find an unbalanced element. As I already said in another topic we will still take a closer look to the Federation and are currently discussing some changes here.

Please make sure that each idea or request is posted in a maximum of one topic. Its no problem to have more then one request in the same topic, but multiple topics for the same request cause me to lose the overview.

[Atlantis]

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 1:26 pm

Last edited by Atlantis on January 22nd, 2009, 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Holy cow, he tells me his issue is I am whining but he's been whining all along. Oh the irony! You're just too much kid. I really think you should just let it go.

Fine by me. I'm all for calling it quits. If you don't understand my point of view, then that's fine, doesn't matter to me. When this all started all I was trying to do was to get you to lighten up, so you don't take this so seriously, but through this all that's happened is I've been dragged down with it.

So, stop slagging me off in threads and I will drop it.

@Ray320: I know this thread isn't about the Galaxy. My responses have been to Constellation trying to insult me, and me trying to explain a few things about the forum in general. But I'm done with that now.

----

Anyway, best add something on-topic. The problem with using the refit system too much, for upgrading systems, is that you end up with something essentially the same as what the Borg have. You could have ships optimised for any different mission (like in SFC3), which is a pretty neat idea, but a lot of work for little gain.

Refits in general, I like the idea of. War Refit Galaxies, upgraded Excelsiors and Mirandas, yes. The problem is getting it to work and be different enough from the Romulans refit system. =(

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 2:53 pm

I imagine the Dominion War Galaxy to just be a Galaxy Class of an higher rank 

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 2:55 pm

It was mentioned in another htread about the Venture subclass being an officer rank Galaxy.

posted on January 22nd, 2009, 3:00 pm

Ah true, in which case would we really need refits for the Feds?
You only need it to be a "refit" option when there's more than one choice (eg. the Nebula). Otherwise just making a slight graphical change to a higher-rank Galaxy would work fine.

It would lead to quite interesting strategies if this were implemented on a bigger scale though. So that if you use a ship in enough battles, it keeps upgrading and staying useful. If you keep it hidden in the "safety" of a base, it becomes useless later in the game.
(Not a 100% serious idea - just an extrapolation of the current rank system)