Decommission resource return percent.

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on September 6th, 2010, 8:10 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on September 6th, 2010, 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Very interesting, however I can't seem to find out what those are used in. Maybe Optec can shed some light on this

However, vessels and structures in game are still recycled at 30% as far as I can tell. 

EDIT: Optec says they are no longer used

posted on September 6th, 2010, 8:18 pm

So I was looking at obsolete code? Huh, that explains why it still said metal instead of tritanium.

posted on September 6th, 2010, 9:16 pm

What about some form of research that allowed for a higher return from decommissioning?

posted on September 6th, 2010, 9:19 pm

The stock recycling Center allowed the Borg to get 100% of the resources back from assimilated ships, why not add that function back in? It shouldn't hurt too much, considering the massive gap between ship costs.

It would fit the 'Optimize' avatar.

posted on September 6th, 2010, 9:29 pm

maybe not 100% res. maybe 90% res back. thats more realistic, sometimes res is just used. like tri in the hull gets blown up. but definitely higher than usual.

posted on September 6th, 2010, 11:03 pm

What about some form of research that allowed for a higher return from decommissioning?

This would fix the strategy problems, and allow for worthwhile decommissioning later on. 

posted on September 6th, 2010, 11:34 pm

i think decomp ships should give full supply back... while other stuff stay the same

posted on September 6th, 2010, 11:35 pm

Very interesting, however I can't seem to find out what those are used in. Maybe Optec can shed some light on this

However, vessels and structures in game are still recycled at 30% as far as I can tell. 

EDIT: Optec says they are no longer used

Optec actually said that the discrete recycling values as stated in the vessel odfs override the race-based recycling percentage

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on September 6th, 2010, 11:59 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on September 7th, 2010, 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

That's the same thing - if they aren't being used for any units/structures (I checked more) then they aren't being used, right?

recycledilithiumfraction = .5
recyclemetalfraction = .5

As to whether they revert back when the vessel-specific odfs are not used... I haven't tested that yet . I'll do so shortly.

EDIT: just checked. Not sure if I did it right though.... deleting all the recycle lines caused no funds to be returned. So either the command doesn't work, or I messed something up 

posted on September 7th, 2010, 11:23 pm

I voted for 50%, almost voted for 70-80% though.  Decomming takes a LONG time for only 30% return.

The way I see it, the major usage of decomming is for expansions, when enemies raid them.  You can choose to either let the station take up your enemy's time, or decom it for a few resources (or hope they go away and leave it intact, which actually happens more often than not)

I think that decision - delay enemies or get money - needs to be better balanced.  The 'get money' option needs to actually have some value, after all if your enemy knows you'll get some resources back he might decide to destroy it anyway.  Right now when you see an enemy structure decomming you just laugh and say, "yeah, enjoy your 200 dilithium."  THAT'LL give you an advantage.

The second usage of decom is what dom said, decomming early structures to rush to end structures.  And why shouldn't people be allowed to do that?  He couldn't give a good reason.  In almost every case, decommissioning a level 1 factory for 50% of its resources would be a bad idea unless you already had the fleet advantage.  Even if it was 75%, the time you would be without that factory would be over 2 minutes and the advantage of bigger ships wouldn't be enough to make up for it.  I think in the rare, awesome moments when decomming things for 50% would pay off, it should be allowed.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 11:46 pm

I voted for 50%, almost voted for 70-80% though.  Decomming takes a LONG time for only 30% return.

The way I see it, the major usage of decomming is for expansions, when enemies raid them.  You can choose to either let the station take up your enemy's time, or decom it for a few resources (or hope they go away and leave it intact, which actually happens more often than not)

I think that decision - delay enemies or get money - needs to be better balanced.  The 'get money' option needs to actually have some value, after all if your enemy knows you'll get some resources back he might decide to destroy it anyway.  Right now when you see an enemy structure decomming you just laugh and say, "yeah, enjoy your 200 dilithium."  THAT'LL give you an advantage.

The second usage of decom is what dom said, decomming early structures to rush to end structures.  And why shouldn't people be allowed to do that?  He couldn't give a good reason.  In almost every case, decommissioning a level 1 factory for 50% of its resources would be a bad idea unless you already had the fleet advantage.  Even if it was 75%, the time you would be without that factory would be over 2 minutes and the advantage of bigger ships wouldn't be enough to make up for it.  I think in the rare, awesome moments when decomming things for 50% would pay off, it should be allowed.

From these comments I take it you don't play Fleet Ops online too often . Even if it doesn't make a difference or give an advantage in Instant Action, online, small things add up to become quite big advantages.  I didn't "give a good reason", because I didn't think I needed to - it's far too obvious online. Some of the strategies I and others have come up with that fall short only a few hundred, or even only a few dozen dilithium/tritanium of being feasible would be downright overpowered if you could actually decom and get them to work to disastrous results.

posted on September 8th, 2010, 12:27 am

hmm, 2 things.

First, I apologize for saying that you 'didn't give a good reason.'  I wanted to get you to explain your reasoning, didn't really think about the sound of it.

Second, what on earth is it with this community?  I enjoy playing the game with you guys and for the most part you're...emotionally stable and all  but there seems to be this INSANE obsession with how many hours somebody puts in.

Fact 1: playing the AI is very different from playing humans.
Fact 2: people often get misconceptions about the game from playing against AI instead of humans.
Fact 3: If anybody disagrees with anybody else on these forums, about anything big or small, it's like a standard greeting to smugly insult them with, "I can tell you don't play online very much."

I've easily played 3 dozen games now, WTF do you want from me!?  My friends in EvE Online don't bad an eyelash when a noob asks them what "tackling" is, and that game is FAMOUS for being smug to noobs.

If about 100 dilithium will allow you to UberPwn somebody, I really want to be the person who gets UberPwned and laugh about it!  And then they can balance out the exploit in a different way.

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on September 8th, 2010, 12:37 am

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on September 8th, 2010, 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

The way to balance the exploits that don't yet exist... is not to introduce them in the first place . I wasn't insulting you incidentally, just trying to reiterate that this really is a thing you will notice from a large number of online games  . Many casual gamers won't notice OP/UP things or will call things that aren't a problem a problem, and vice versa. Changing the decommission rates significantly alters balance in a fair number of situations - but hey, if you want Pyramids in the first 5 minutes breathing down your throat so that everybody can play Borg go right ahead and mod that game to do that 

By the way, if you think I'm taking issue with 100 dilithium, I'm not - it's the percentages you suggested that are the problem . 100 dilithium from a Starbase decommissioning obviously isn't the same as 100 from a refinery 

EDIT:

Second, what on earth is it with this community?  I enjoy playing the game with you guys and for the most part you're...emotionally stable and all  but there seems to be this INSANE obsession with how many hours somebody puts in.

Not certain what this means to be honest  I've never come across that attitude except in some very rare circumstances. We have some people who have been playing for several years that have lower skill level than some players who came on just a month ago or so. The only time when that is really asked is when you don't know people in a game and you want to set one up with balanced teams . If someone has just come straight off playing the AI and has never had a game against a human, they are likely to not do so well in a PvP game... and thus it's nice to know where everybody stands so that we can have fun games 

posted on September 8th, 2010, 12:44 am

Isn't 5 minute pyramid an actual strategy currently in 3v3s? Currently a tech up with allied help is just as powerful as if you could decom stuff, except you don't need to decom anything (much more flexible.) It can especially be problematic on large maps where raiding is hard. I would much rather see an early high tech unit from decomming than from allies giving that player resources.

I think that tech-strats need a lot of balancing besides resources.

posted on September 8th, 2010, 12:49 am

Isn't 5 minute pyramid an actual strategy currently in 3v3s? Currently a tech up with allied help is just as powerful as if you could decom stuff, except you don't need to decom anything (much more flexible.) It can especially be problematic on large maps where raiding is hard. I would much rather see an early high tech unit from decomming than from allies giving that player resources.

I think that tech-strats need a lot of balancing besides resources.

7 minutes , but it'll deplete your allies and make them weaker which is why ally-gives require more cooperation and skill to pull off. Simply decomming and getting a high tier unit which will end the game immediately in a 1v1 is ridiculous and FO isn't balanced for that. In an allied game that isn't possible, as there are many players, a lot of distance to cover, and a lot of different outcomes based on those combination.