Assim Avatar

posted on July 6th, 2011, 6:30 am

I have one proposal for the Assim avatar which is that this avatar gets access to Boarding special from the beginning on. That means all his ships have this special already researched (without costing any reseach points).

posted on July 6th, 2011, 6:46 am

Yeah I already proposed some stuff quite a while ago which was basically optimize should get all the specials which do damage like devesating attack which is useless to assimilate who want to capture and not to destroy. Assimilate should get new/modified specials which actually help you capture enemy ships.

posted on July 6th, 2011, 6:57 am

While I'm all for new ideas for the Assim Avatar - Boarding is an incredibly powerful ability. 

  Arash can abuse the hell out of it when he's got a big fleet going on and if it were available imemdiately that would be just devastating.

posted on July 6th, 2011, 10:35 am

Boarding isn't even assim specific, Borg are always sending over drones for lots of reasons, but often to find out information about the enemy ship. Maybe that could be some kind of optimise special ability?

posted on July 6th, 2011, 10:49 am

Yeah I already proposed some stuff quite a while ago which was basically optimize should get all the specials which do damage like devesating attack which is useless to assimilate who want to capture and not to destroy. Assimilate should get new/modified specials which actually help you capture enemy ships.

I assume you mean High Energy Slicer, Devestating Attack is the one that hurts shields and does nothing to the hull. I would agree with the idea if not for the fact that even under the assimilate directive, the Borg would know they would likely be forced to destroy things and would be prepared for it.

Though, I suppose 'gameplay over realism' would explain it...

posted on July 6th, 2011, 6:06 pm

Arash can abuse the hell out of it when he's got a big fleet going on and if it were available imemdiately that would be just devastating.

On the one hand you say it requires a large fleet and on the other hand you speak about devasting in early game...is not consistent to me?! You can always try to stop the emeny from getting a large fleet...think of it like you stop a fed player that is massing warpins. And in case that this is not enough, Assim miners can be made weaker (which they are by default since they dont get the bonus of opti)...

posted on July 6th, 2011, 6:39 pm

im with boggz on this one, early game a bunch of scubes/dodes could easily board your ships and assimilate your dudes. it would be op if the current boarding special was available without transmission matrix/research.

posted on July 6th, 2011, 6:41 pm

I dont think this is a good  idea. You can one shot capture a scout...

posted on July 6th, 2011, 6:48 pm

I dont think this is a good  idea. You can one shot capture a scout...

especially since scubes can close quickly to a scout. would make scouting a real pain. assims with auto assim beam are slow and require money, so its fair to lose a scout to an assim.

posted on July 6th, 2011, 6:53 pm

On the one hand you say it requires a large fleet and on the other hand you speak about devasting in early game...is not consistent to me?! You can always try to stop the emeny from getting a large fleet...think of it like you stop a fed player that is massing warpins. And in case that this is not enough, Assim miners can be made weaker (which they are by default since they dont get the bonus of opti)...

  Do you watch games where Arash is Borg? 

posted on July 6th, 2011, 7:24 pm

Did you get the point in what I was saying? Especially about the Feds?

This is not OP...you guys just need to rethink your strats (as you teach us when we claim inbalances related to Feds). The Borg should not be allowed to have an armada of Scubes.

And in case there really is a problem (i.e. you technically can't avoid mass scubes) we can always increase chassi cost for scubes for Assim avatar to make assimilation more prominent this way.

And Boggz, since when do you measure OPness of a strategy (or faction) by one single player's skills?
Maybe you should try harder vs Arash and rethink your strategies instead of rating ideas as OP just because you can't handle Arash as Borg...

posted on July 6th, 2011, 7:31 pm

Did you get the point in what I was saying? Especially about the Feds?

This is not OP...you guys just need to rethink your strats (as you teach us when we claim inbalances related to Feds). The Borg should not be allowed to have an armada of Scubes.

And in case there really is a problem (i.e. you technically can't avoid mass scubes) we can always increase chassi cost for scubes for Assim avatar to make assimilation more prominent this way.

And Boggz, since when do you measure OPness of a strategy (or faction) by one single player's skills?
Maybe you should try harder vs Arash and rethink your strategies instead of rating ideas as OP just because you can't handle Arash as Borg...

you see that's just not correct, it doesnt take a "massive armada" of scubes to cause boarding issues.

this can be easily tested:

borg (assimilate) player fast techs to transmission at start, researches boarding, decoms transmission, and mines exactly enough resources to get back to starting values subtract the amount you get for decomming the mining stations. then they decom mining stations and send the miners to other guys base (other guy does nothing at all during all this time), the starbase kills the miners and doesnt rank of course. so both players are in the positions they would be at the start, except the borg player now has boarding. then proceed as normal. you wont keep your ships long.

in most early game scenarios its the borg player who is the aggressor as borg can get a nice fleet up early. so they roll on into your mining and boarding a bunch of miners, then run. scubes have 140 speed and your intreps cant keep up, or your 2-4 monsoons/s2 are short range, and the scubes only have to get to medium range and they live. then the miners run in all different directions. the player who just lost their miners either kills the miners or tries the complicated task of beaming back to them.

or maybe the borg player starts the battle by capturing an intrepid. etc. it would be horrible.

posted on July 6th, 2011, 7:43 pm

And Boggz, since when do you measure OPness of a strategy (or faction) by one single player's skills?

  Lol ... You said this:  "You can always try to stop the enemy from getting a large fleet..." several posts ago.  You CANNOT stop a Borg player from massing a huge fleet of small ships VERY quickly.  You simply cannot.  If the boarding ability were to be standard for the Assim avatar, the more ships they have generally means the more boarding they can do and the more small ships they can instantly steal.

  I referenced Arash because he's proven time and again that massive fleets of small Borg ships can be put out far before opposing players can hope to match those numbers.

  It would be OP to have Boarding standard because it just would be.  I referenced Arash because his playstyle is a perfect example of why it would be too powerful.  All anyone would have to do is copy his manner of play and abuse it as well.

  You talk about testing in your last post.  Go out and test it then .  Get someone to record you and prove your point! 

posted on July 6th, 2011, 7:48 pm

the precise numbers for boarding are quite staggering to be available early, 2 probes 3 intercept scubes and 1 peripheral scube (i would say this is not a weird fleet) can capture instantly a monsoon (60 dudes), and from long range. before the first shot is fired, thats a ship the borg now owns. the same boarding fleet can take all but a dozen or so redshirts from an intrep, and once the intrep's shields go down, normal transporters will quickly take the rest.

so every time they regen energy they can go steal a ship, and add it to their own fleet for fun.

even with less ships (say 2 probe 2 scube) you can use boarding and beaming for a capture. its just way too much.

posted on July 6th, 2011, 8:01 pm

@Myles
Feel free to build high crew ships against an Assim Borg. And also consider that the special energy is gone...in case there is turly no other choice, we can always increase chassy cost by x% for Assim avatar...

@Boggz

It would be OP to have Boarding standard because it just would be.  I referenced Arash because his playstyle is a perfect example of why it would be too powerful.  All anyone would have to do is copy his manner of play and abuse it as well.

You still don't get what I am saying right?
The same argumentation several ppl used when Warpins and Fed strats were discussed. What Boggz and some other fanboys say is either "Try harder" or "I can beat Feds lalala". The point is, that good or above average ppl can use certain faction strats (like warpin rush) in a way that they become OP. If this is the case for Arash as Borg, fine. The argument is fair. BUT, for gods damn sake, the argument is also absolutly valid when we discuss Feds - and I do not accept your claims here as long as you don't accept the same argument against Feds.

I referenced Arash because he's proven time and again that massive fleets of small Borg ships can be put out far before opposing players can hope to match those numbers.

If this would be true, Dominus would have experienced this during testing...maybe you are just not good enough against him or you had a pro Borg map or whatever else...

You CANNOT stop a Borg player from massing a huge fleet of small ships VERY quickly.  You simply cannot.

Do you have any calculation here that proves what you say? Any evidence or quantitative argument - beside those 2 or 3 replays? Or is this just your opinion, like my opinion is that fed warpins+small yard stuff is still OP in many situations?