All good things

posted on December 7th, 2012, 9:36 pm

Who wrote that crap?!

Brannon Braga & Michael De Luca. They were probably smashed at the time.

threshold's the dumbest episode, but to me Shades of Grey (in tng) was worse. i hate clipshows. they are the worst thing a tv show can do. shades of grey was worse than threshold because at least threshold tried. threshold tried and failed miserably. shades of grey didn't even try, it was a clipshow. no effort bullshit.

thankfully that was the only trek clipshow we got. some have called trials and tribblations a clipshow because it includes tos footage, but this footage was edited to include new things, such as sisko and dax in the shot. to me that wasn't a clipshow, because the footage wasn't being used just to portray the original events, it was being included to portray new events as well.

[Tyler]

posted on December 7th, 2012, 9:46 pm

Last edited by Tyler on December 7th, 2012, 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

they announce all bazillion possible alternate universes which completely removed any real risk for the Federation from then on because no matter what happened you could at least die know that somewhere in another timeline the Federation and you yourself were doing just peachy.

I still don't know how that (no offense) ridiculous idea exists... how does that remove any risk? They can still be killed, enslaved or assimilated! At least Teal'c was smarter than that; "Ours is the only reality of consequence".

Not that I'm calling you stupid or anything, that logic is just ridiculous to me.

posted on December 7th, 2012, 10:23 pm

I think that Galaxy-X should be reserved for Admiral Riker avatar.

posted on December 7th, 2012, 11:27 pm

Ive always supported The AGT Galaxy and an Admiral Riker Avatar, though theres a lot of hate for both.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 4:05 am

they announce all bazillion possible alternate universes which completely removed any real risk for the Federation from then on because no matter what happened you could at least die know that somewhere in another timeline the Federation and you yourself were doing just peachy.

I still don't know how that (no offense) ridiculous idea exists... how does that remove any risk? They can still be killed, enslaved or assimilated! At least Teal'c was smarter than that; "Ours is the only reality of consequence".

Not that I'm calling you stupid or anything, that logic is just ridiculous to me.

I meant for the show. Star Trek was basically reduced to just one of any number of possibilities so you lose some interest in the characters themselves. You couldn't feel bad in any real way for the alternate universe in DS9 where they were enslaved because the universe that we were watching on TV was just doing dandy all things considering. They also weren't on the verge of losing to the Borg like the one universe in TNG.

Star Trek the movie (the new one) just reduced it even further when Vulcan is destroyed since that was before the TNG era. Which Star Trek universe is our universe the TGN, DS9 timeline or the JJ Abrams timeline with no Vulcan? If they are just going to go willy nilly and start blowing up planets left and right and having important people get killed around any corner and use the blanket excuse that it's an alternate universe and only one of many possibilities, I just see alot of lazy writing coming down the road. Why not kill Spock or Kirk in the next movie......after all it's just an alternate universe?

posted on December 8th, 2012, 4:19 am

Wasn't there some cardinal rule of warp nacelles supposed to be in pairs

From my understanding, the rule is for optimal travel. A ship can use only one necelle, but it has more problems, such as higher power requirements for higher speeds. As for 3 nacelles, I would think that the third would be used mostly as a back up, incase one of the other two fail, or it could be a plasma storage area, for power to be stored incase the core fails, in which case, the plasma stored could keep the ship powered for a while, just long enough for the core to be repaired.

You reach warp 10 which is theoretically impossible because you occupy all points in space at once or something like that and then for some goofy reason you automatically turn into lizards! WTF? Who wrote that crap?

Well, to my understanding, subspace has many, unknown radiations, all of which has been mapped out enough to set up the shields so they dont affect the crew. At Warp 10, the radiation is different, more concentrated, or combined with radiation that is from another galaxy. (You do occupy everywhere simaltaniously, including subspace) In that thought, shielding for such eventualities is nonexistent, so you end up with many different radiation isotopes passing through you, at least one of which may cause your body to become evolutionary accelerated.

As for the lizards, not sure. If it were monkeys, I'd understand it as reversing the evolution, but not going forward on the evolutionary scale.

Any chance of seeing the AGT Galaxy-X as a warp in? Or maybe as the veteran upgrade to the Galaxy?

Someone, or some team, somewhere had to design that refit. Just because the D never refit like that doesn't mean it wasn't on a drawing board at Utopia Planitia

In my opinion, the Galaxy X should be an idea that had been on the back burner after Picard's encounter with Q in the episode 'All good things...'. It would make sense that he would suggest the design to Star Fleet Command and some Admiral though about it for a week and considered the idea bogus only to get the see it kill a bunch of Borg ships in a dream he had one night. Said design is later transfered to Utopia Planitia, where the shipyard techs laugh until they start looking it over...

Just a thought.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 6:42 am

threshold's the dumbest episode, but to me Shades of Grey (in tng) was worse. i hate clipshows. they are the worst thing a tv show can do. shades of grey was worse than threshold because at least threshold tried. threshold tried and failed miserably. shades of grey didn't even try, it was a clipshow. no effort bullshit.

thankfully that was the only trek clipshow we got. some have called trials and tribblations a clipshow because it includes tos footage, but this footage was edited to include new things, such as sisko and dax in the shot. to me that wasn't a clipshow, because the footage wasn't being used just to portray the original events, it was being included to portray new events as well.

Shades of Grey was what it was because Paramount forced the producers to do a cheap, quickly filmed episode in return for what was lavished on Q Who and Elementary, Dear Data. I expect they would have loved to have done more, especially for a season finale, but they just didn't have the resources.

I'll definitely agree that Trials and Tribble-ations isn't in the same ballpark though. It was a brilliantly realised affectionate homage that was done for the 30th anniversary. They went to enormous lengths in the production of the episode, and some good luck too in that they were able to get the original actor who played Darvin (the Klingon spy). Plus we got to see Dax in a TOS uniform.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 6:59 am

Actually Shades of Grey was what it was because there was a writers strike going on at the time and they needed another episode quickly so they threw together a clip episode which needed very little writing talent.

As far as the Galaxy class goes, I dont know why people are trying to say its some big cuddly ship, yes its large so what? Not like you need a slick aerodynamic shape in space. The Galaxy was the Federation ship of the line, it was designed to go into the unknown, therefore WAS the most powerful ship in starfleet at the time, they were well armed and well defended. Yes its not a dedicated warship, save for the Defiant and maybe the Prometheus, Starfleet doesnt build dedicated warships. Either way the Galaxy class on numerous occasions was referenced to be a powerful warship if need be. If anything that extra size allows that much more combat capability if needed down the road through possible refits and upgrades.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 8:06 am

In my opinion, the Galaxy X should be an idea that had been on the back burner after Picard's encounter with Q in the episode 'All good things...'. It would make sense that he would suggest the design to Star Fleet Command and some Admiral though about it for a week and considered the idea bogus only to get the see it kill a bunch of Borg ships in a dream he had one night. Said design is later transfered to Utopia Planitia, where the shipyard techs laugh until they start looking it over...

Just a thought.

My thoughts on it was more along the lines of this being a Dominion War era refit that didn't see fruition until after the war was over. We know there are several examples of this happening in the real world. Several types of ships, fighters, bombers, etc that had development started during World War II, but didn't quite see service in time to see combat.

My theory on the need for such a refit comes from the loss of the USS Valiant, and Starfleet realizing it had no single ship that could stand up to a monster like that Dominion battleship. Since we already see that development on such a large ship takes years, they decided to upfit an already proven, and large, spaceframe. We even see what could perhaps be some of the early refits towards the Galaxy-X with the USS Venture, since the Venture and the Ent-D refit both have the additional phaser strips on top of the warp engines. Seen below.


I would further conjecture that in the alternate timeline, the Enterprise D survived that timeline's Dominion War, but in the process was so badly damaged as to be mothballed instead of repaired, given material and personnel shortages during wartime. She was only saved from the scrap heap by a Riker with enough clout later on to have her repaired, and brought up to 'new' Galaxy class specifications in the process.

Purely speculation to be sure, but it fits to some degree.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 9:34 am

Another theory behind the third warp nacelle is power. At least in KA, it's explained that a ships warp drive also provides most of the power for a ships systems when not being used for propulsion. Given as the Galaxy-X has that enormous Phaser Cannon/Assault Phaser/Phaser Lance thing under the saucer, one could theorise that much like the Yamato before her, she required additional nacelles to generate the power for the weapon, and that the nacelle was not used for propulsive purposes.

It's a bit like modern warships having diesel generators even if they are nuclear powered in order to power additional systems on ship and act as a backup.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 11:48 am

Shades of Grey was what it was because Paramount forced the producers to do a cheap, quickly filmed episode in return for what was lavished on Q Who and Elementary, Dear Data. I expect they would have loved to have done more, especially for a season finale, but they just didn't have the resources.

Actually Shades of Grey was what it was because there was a writers strike going on at the time and they needed another episode quickly so they threw together a clip episode which needed very little writing talent.

Lack of money or the writers strike are reasons why shades of grey was bad, not an excuse.

i'd rather they didn't produce an episode, than produce a clipshow. I'd rather the producers write it themselves and have an episode as stupid as threshold, than a clipshow.

other than that clipshow, series 2 wasn't atrocious, it was lightyears ahead of series 1. and series 3 was far better than both, it was when tng really picked up and "grew its beard" even though riker's beard joined the cast at the start of series 2.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 4:15 pm

Shades of Grey was what it was because Paramount forced the producers to do a cheap, quickly filmed episode in return for what was lavished on Q Who and Elementary, Dear Data. I expect they would have loved to have done more, especially for a season finale, but they just didn't have the resources.

Actually Shades of Grey was what it was because there was a writers strike going on at the time and they needed another episode quickly so they threw together a clip episode which needed very little writing talent.

Lack of money or the writers strike are reasons why shades of grey was bad, not an excuse.

i'd rather they didn't produce an episode, than produce a clipshow. I'd rather the producers write it themselves and have an episode as stupid as threshold, than a clipshow.

other than that clipshow, series 2 wasn't atrocious, it was lightyears ahead of series 1. and series 3 was far better than both, it was when tng really picked up and "grew its beard" even though riker's beard joined the cast at the start of series 2.

Not saying it was an excuse, It was a crap episode as most clip episodes are.

Squire james, warp power is generated in the warp core, not the nacelle, the nacelles are just coils powered by high energy plasma created from the warp core, more nacelle's doesnt necessarily mean more power to the ship, altho you could assume the warp core was more powerful then stock to power that 3rd nacelle.

Hravik, That has always been my thought as well, even though we only have seen the X in an alternate possible future that doesnt mean that still wouldnt be a natural progression of the class for upgrades in the regular universe, all it means is the Enterprise wont end up like that as it was destroyed.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 6:32 pm

Yeah, I'm not trying to excuse Shades of Grey either, just trying to put its production into the wider context that existed at the time.

Season 2 had some truly stand-out episodes, though, and while it might not quite have been the "grow the beard" season, there was some pretty good-looking stubble there.

Hravik, I like your thoughts on how the Galaxy class' refits might have progressed during and after the Dominion War.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 6:48 pm

The problem I see with Galaxy X is that what if you lose say the left nacelle in a battle. If you use the right nacelle and the middle one wouldn't you be going around in circles like if you had a flat front tire? Four nacelles makes more sense as you can use them in symmetric pairs.

posted on December 8th, 2012, 7:00 pm

The one good thing about that episode is it now leaves open lots of jokes involving an unconscious Riker and "50 shades of Grey"