Ai Defence Policy

posted on September 9th, 2006, 4:15 am

EARLY ON IN DS9, Gul Jasad and THREE GALOR CLASS WARSHIPS, which are not all too powerful, but decent ships, basically bested DS9 with little or no casualties, so the weapons at that point in time were no base to build off on.

If you don't believe me, it'd the episode where Dukat's warship gets lots in the wormhole.

posted on September 12th, 2006, 12:14 am

regardless of the semantics I think that we can all agree that the bases are very weak. In truth once a base's ships are comprimised they are esintally wiped out, as a starbase is far to weak to match a small fleet (even of small destoyers and very few cruisers I was able to wipe (with a bit of skill) an entire klingon base out, it was quite depressing, that a fully fleged starbase was no match for a small fleet) In continued expirimintation I have found that bases simply can't win against starships
^_^

posted on September 12th, 2006, 12:18 am

well the perfect example is that a fleet of bops and Ktingas can take out any starbase its horrible

i just wish the starbases actually had some teeth to them cause as it stands right now they die soon as they come up against 10 or so ships

[Fullphaser]

posted on September 12th, 2006, 12:21 am

Last edited by Fullphaser on September 12th, 2006, 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

well the perfect example is that a fleet of bops and Ktingas can take out any starbase its horrible

i just wish the starbases actually had some teeth to them cause as it stands right now they die soon as they come up against 10 or so ships

it may be due to the fact that firstly they usually have a single weapon (or two) plus without the multi target ODF, large fleets easily outgun a stabase or use their sheer numbers rather then strength

posted on September 12th, 2006, 12:22 am

well yeah the multi target is a must on Stations i also thing they deserve more than three pulse weapons or a single torp in the case of the klingons they just dont last with it

maybe say multi target and more teeth like phasers and torps ?

posted on September 12th, 2006, 12:23 am

well yeah the multi target is a must on Stations i also thing they deserve more than three pulse weapons or a single torp in the case of the klingons they just dont last with it

maybe say multi target and more teeth like phasers and torps ?

possibly also starbases and turrets have what double the defence of a normal starship? I don't think that seems right, their shields drop quickly when under fire.

posted on September 12th, 2006, 12:26 am

yeah they do its quite ridiculous specially as the klingon base is meant to have what 100 defence ?

posted on September 12th, 2006, 9:31 am

beefing up starbases would alter the early gameplay SO MUCH, people wouldnt have to leave fleets at their base 2 protect their starbases, I think games would last a week longer with this. you'd end up with a far more attacking mentality in FO too i reackon.

[Fullphaser]

posted on September 20th, 2006, 2:56 am

Last edited by Fullphaser on September 20th, 2006, 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well its not quite early when the defence should be improved, but once you run out of ships mid/late game, you are dead period, turrets can't defend, and starbases die quick.. late in game it would be nice if I still ahd a chance for survival after a valiant starship fight

posted on September 20th, 2006, 3:04 am

i agree with you

posted on August 14th, 2007, 7:27 am

Why thank you
Also I am suprised not to see more use of the multi targeting weaponry more in Fleetops. I mean the .odf is somewhere out there, I think Concept Future keeps a copy for their prometheus class ship, I know also the Preminition model out there has a copy of the Multi Target odf, It would be great to see a weapon like that used on Bigger badder ships so it would a.)acutally look like they are fighting multiple ships b.) I can't really think of a B.

But more to the point, there are some other things, firstly, I think it is pretty clear to all of us, that if your ships are destroyed, there is very little chance for survival. So mabye instead of intially making the turrets stronger, offer upgrades through research, mabye each race gets a constructive research station where  ugrades for all turrets can be made, and then upgrades for the starbase could be purchased there. The catch is they would have to be a pretty hefty price to ensure that they weren't just bought off hand.

The starbase should probably have some buyable teeth too, for the defensive players out there, So mabye in when the game starts there's an option to buy an extra torpedo etc.

But all this leads to the another point, how to defeat an enhanced starbase, rather than numbers it should require stratagy, Starbases should have to require some thought to wipe out, To do this, we could extend the range or Artillary vessles, to something more Artillaryish, right now they are basically in firing range of the base defences, Also, The Dom. Artillary range itself is pretty short in my opinion (unless the AI has this sinking need to get closer, I was pretty sure the Armada engine has the ship fire its wepon as soon as its in range, and I frankly wasn't that impressed) I mean the maps for A2 are massive, I mean massive maps, and the range of this ships is really quite sad. I can understand for the regular starships, but the art ships really need more range.

Warp, I know the reaction for this one, but... we should make use of that part of the engine in some way, mabye make a special ability that relies off the warp physics of Armada 2,  like a quick burst of speed for the feds, or use the stretching physics for the fun of it somewhere but best not let it go to waste.

Also, The AI has this standard to once it has capped out at its liked number of ships, its seems to stay at that number (ie if it builds what 16 ships on easy) and these ships still fail to take out a starbase, it will continue with another 16 instead of trying to rework its plan and build more.

anyone ? [br]Posted on: September 23, 2006, 03:57:44 pm

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I thought I might bring this up again seeing as balancing is the big thing and stations do seem to be really weak. I am happy to see that the turret upgrade idea seemed to make it in. But I was wondering if we are still in agreement that starbases are insanely weak.

hmm, SMF merged the double post FTW

posted on August 14th, 2007, 9:27 am

but where would this multitarget capabiity end? even now there are systems that can split firepower between multiple targets, so that means everyone in the future should have it as well...not for me thank you.

multitarget capability for a few special weapons only for me.

posted on August 14th, 2007, 8:14 pm

I have to say that although the multitarget approach would make battles look much more beautiful, it probably would destroy the functionality of some weapons (read special weapons) and also change the balance a little too much. I doubt a BoP could attack too targets at the same time, but a b-ship could hit both and still destroy them, probably taking less damage in the process than if it had attacked each at a seperate time.

That being said, I'm for the idea of mulitarget being used for only a few stations and special ship weapons.

Back to stations.... right now it appears the primary focus of the game lies around doing a suicide run into the enemy base, ignoring their ships, and instead annihilating a poor almost defensless main starbase. This has really infuriated me at several times, because it is very hard to keep the advantage if someone is willing to leave their own base defenseless just to destroy yours, expecting no ships to come back. I think, but am not sure, that if bases could defend themselves just a little bit more, the emphasis to mix ships to take out enemy fleet and base simultaneously may become  more prevalent. Players may become more inclined to try and outnumber their enemies ships or get more powerful ships, rather than just suicide bomb the starbase... I hope this makes sense
-dom

[Fullphaser]

posted on August 14th, 2007, 9:41 pm

Last edited by Fullphaser on August 14th, 2007, 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

but where would this multitarget capabiity end? even now there are systems that can split firepower between multiple targets, so that means everyone in the future should have it as well...not for me thank you.

multitarget capability for a few special weapons only for me.

I would only think Stations and Battleships. Those are the only type I have seen open fire in real battles are at least that level (cubes, sovi/galaxy, stations (starbase)

I have to say that although the multitarget approach would make battles look much more beautiful, it probably would destroy the functionality of some weapons (read special weapons) and also change the balance a little too much. I doubt a BoP could attack too targets at the same time, but a b-ship could hit both and still destroy them, probably taking less damage in the process than if it had attacked each at a seperate time.

That being said, I'm for the idea of mulitarget being used for only a few stations and special ship weapons.

Back to stations.... right now it appears the primary focus of the game lies around doing a suicide run into the enemy base, ignoring their ships, and instead annihilating a poor almost defensless main starbase. This has really infuriated me at several times, because it is very hard to keep the advantage if someone is willing to leave their own base defenseless just to destroy yours, expecting no ships to come back. I think, but am not sure, that if bases could defend themselves just a little bit more, the emphasis to mix ships to take out enemy fleet and base simultaneously may become  more prevalent. Players may become more inclined to try and outnumber their enemies ships or get more powerful ships, rather than just suicide bomb the starbase... I hope this makes sense
-dom

It makes sense to me. right now with a good 5 cruisers/destroyers you can essentially cripple a base. A starbase should not fall to 10-20 destroyers alone. Maybe it is just me, but that doesn't make sense. When you are up against 2-3 enemies they could have that number in very little time. And with them concentrating on your starbase they will more than likely kill it, and when that is gone your game is up. Turrets aren't strong enough to be useful (outranged all to often, and usually outgunned by cruisers)

[Anonymous]

posted on August 14th, 2007, 9:50 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on August 14th, 2007, 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yep. That's right.
But.. when I think of a Venture opening fire at three..no, four.. five! five! Bugs simultaneously! Uhm...

Please do leave multi-targeting for the cap-ships, the stations!
For the smaller ships it's nice to have it as a special-ability.
If it's doable I'd like to see the cap-ships and stations from different hardpoints at the same time. If it isn't, I suggest we forget about multi-targeting because it would look quite weird.

My thoughts about the AI defence policy so far 

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edit: These post-edits... 
If the stations could give an attacking fleet a harder time it could prevent suicide runs. I think the gameplay would benefit. Maybe the stations could get some.. strategic.. advantages or.. whatever. But indeed, they're quite weak as they are and turrets aren't really worth the money you have to spend for them.