Advanced defense options

posted on August 25th, 2011, 9:17 pm

Now, I know that FO is based more on fleet combat, and assaulting. But the strategy of turtling is just as important in my opinion. Currently FO provides some pretty decent defense stations for each race, but to me, it seems a bit limited. So here is what I propose.

A advanced type of defense station, less in power then a starbase, but stronger then a turret. Obviously the cost would be far higher then the standard turret, but it woulden't be a bank breaker like the starbase. Also, to keep the distinct flavor of variety that FO has, each race's defense station could have different abilities, I'll give you an example of my idea of the klingon version.

-2 disruptors
-1 torpedo launcher
-1/3 shields and hp of a starbase
- the station's special would be the deployment of 4 b'rels, with fighter AI, to defend the station, you can deploy or undeploy them, but if any are lost you lose supply like a warpin.


So, what do you think? I'm looking forward to hearing feedback from everyone

posted on August 25th, 2011, 9:54 pm

not a fan, i like the current idea of emplacements, not to stop fleets, but to scare them off or delay them.

i think fleetops should stay about fleets.

posted on August 25th, 2011, 9:59 pm

If you want an Advanced Defence Station, the Dominion has that Perimeter monster.

posted on August 25th, 2011, 10:30 pm

i think fleetops should stay about fleets.

Having said that, i like the idea.

posted on August 25th, 2011, 10:41 pm

I'd rather just have starbases get a few more high end upgrades, for lots of cost, from range increase to having the ships with fighter AI as mentioned above.

It wouldn't make them TOO over powered but it would make the starbase last a little longer (unless 5 auto assims come in and just decrew it)

posted on August 26th, 2011, 1:16 am

The perimeter is good, but also is only for dominion players. I'd like to see something to that effect for the other races, a cap could be put on them too, although I'm not a huge fan of that idea.

As for redirecting the the main goal of FO...It will still be all about fleets, the only change will be that the defense based players will have slightly better options available. Main attacking fleets will still apply, and a quick reaction force will still apply.

posted on August 26th, 2011, 1:24 am

Turtling is a lost art, many try but few master it. The bottleneck for turtling is resources. You need a fleet to secure resources so even with more defensive options  the focus will remain on fleets.

posted on August 26th, 2011, 1:29 am

The perimeter is good, but also is only for dominion players.

So is Dominion prototype/supply mining, Borg assimilation & Federation Turret refits. Giving that trait to other races removes a race-unique feature.

posted on August 26th, 2011, 1:35 am

Considering there are many race unique features already, with more on the way (not confirmed, but I would imagine so) I don't think the addition of defense stations would upset the balance and/or custom feel of the races.

posted on August 26th, 2011, 10:32 am

i dont think anything more should be given to turtlers, they can already slow the game down and make it incredibly boring as it is, play feds and spam cheap but effective turrets, yet still have money for a defensive fleet. hell they can even raid with a few proxy torp spewing monsoons.

super turtlers will still lose as turrets arent fleets and cant win the game, but they can damn well make it boring to play sometimes.

posted on August 26th, 2011, 11:25 am

i dont think anything more should be given to turtlers, they can already slow the game down and make it incredibly boring as it is, play feds and spam cheap but effective turrets, yet still have money for a defensive fleet. hell they can even raid with a few proxy torp spewing monsoons.

super turtlers will still lose as turrets arent fleets and cant win the game, but they can damn well make it boring to play sometimes.

With all due respect Myles, and others, a clickfest is also a boring game for most of us whom are not 15 year old and click the mouse a gazillion times/minute.
This is not a personal assault, even thou you might feel it that way. Sorry.

Giving a capped outpost that costs a lot is a trade away:
1. Either you have some static defense that is a raid deterrent, or use it to holding a strategic position, and would also make the Fedrat players build something else then monsoon monsoon intrepid monsoon monsoon intrepid monsoon monsoon intrepid and add the warp-in, basically that's it. All other ships are just eye candy for the majority of players, and please don't quote the occasional "carrier" rush as another tactic, rather ask yourself when was the last time you saw someone do anything else then monsoon monsoon intrepid, repeat.

Do tell me you don't know that turrets can be swarmed/exploited - the nearest ship is to one being attacked, simple (yeah right) just [i]micromanage your ships[/i] -, and they do require time and resources to build.
Please enlighten me if there is any other faction besides the federation that can do that : build turrets and still produce raiding parties.

2. You do not build it as you feel you need more ships. Let's not decent into favoritism here OK ? One should have the choice, not be forced do build nothing but ships.

Always being forced to rush is as boring as hell as well.

Regards
Dex

P.S: Yes I'm having a "wonderful day", thank you for asking !

posted on August 26th, 2011, 12:42 pm

With all due respect Myles, and others, a clickfest is also a boring game for most of us whom are not 15 year old and click the mouse a gazillion times/minute.
This is not a personal assault, even thou you might feel it that way. Sorry.

i'll accept you do not intend this as a personal assault

fleetops isnt a "clickfest" or an exercise in clicking speed for me, usually clicking faster wont help, ships tend to slow down and get confused if given loads of orders in a quick amount of time. usually its better to plan moves in advance and make it clear to your retarded captains what you need from them.

Do tell me you don't know that turrets can be swarmed/exploited - the nearest ship is to one being attacked, simple (yeah right) just [i]micromanage your ships[/i] -, and they do require time and resources to build.

of course i know this, that's why i said turtlers dont win...

but they make the game real boring by delaying and delaying, as a taqroja klingon player its often so boring trying to clear out a trenched in fed player that one doesnt even wanna finish the game. in general for any race, any ships you happen to destroy will just be replaced with free warpins, they support their lack of resources and map control with free ships, which are still great if all you do is turtle up in a small number of places, warpins may not be great for raiding and fast paced battles with even fleets, but they work great when they sit near turrets and yards, their low speed and supply death cost means little in those circumstances.

resources arent such a problem for feds as their turrets are cheap and effective, and they have free at the point of use warpins.

Please enlighten me if there is any other faction besides the federation that can do that : build turrets and still produce raiding parties.

why would that support this idea? it would just make other races closer to feds.

2. You do not build it as you feel you need more ships. Let's not decent into favoritism here OK ? One should have the choice, not be forced do build nothing but ships.

who's descending into favouritism?

the game is called fleet ops for a reason, whenever someone makes a game they say what the game is gonna be. in a shooter you are forced to shoot people, in an rpg based on magic you are forced to use magic spells and stuff. dont expect to play volleyball in a football game. fleetops is a game where fleets matter, if you wanna play a game about turtling then play a tower defence game. games shouldnt try to appeal to every type of gamer, the gamer chooses which game they wanna play based on which type of game they like. every developer of every game forces the gamer to play in a certain way, if the gamer doesnt like backtracking for powerups they shouldnt play metroid games for example.

Always being forced to rush is as boring as hell as well.

i dont think people are forced to rush, in fact i never rush, im not a fan of rushes. a lot of strats in fleetops arent rushes, such as 2x chassis 1 mix for feds, or field yard mix for klinks, or kbq/sang for klinks, or rhienn/leahval/griffin mix for roms.

posted on August 26th, 2011, 8:23 pm

I completely agree that fleet ops should stay focused on fleets, there is no argument there. I just think a mid level defense station would be useful.

[Ensign Expendable]

posted on August 26th, 2011, 10:11 pm

Last edited by Ensign Expendable on August 26th, 2011, 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Edit: smiley malfunction in first sentence fixed.

Perhaps said station could be harder to maintain for it's extra kick?  Here are some ways I'm thinking for the mid level defense station to stick it to the player running it  .

1.) A somewhat reasonable dilithium and latinum cost coupled with a recurring or constant drain on supplies.  That supply drain may or may not be modified by leveling the station up.  I'm thinking that using a weapon replace on a "empty" shell station would eat supply (and possibly more dilithium/latinum) , then switch to "working" station with weapons that use special energy reserves to fire (the station doesn't regenerate special energy).  When special energy is low or gone the user can press a button and the station goes back to it's "empty" shell state with a cooldown timer to prevent a quick return to "working" station form. Rough estimates are "working" station stats are slightly 1/2 of fed starbase; "shell" station stats are the feds built turret that you've not selected what it'll be; fleet cap of 3.

2.) Depending on your dilithium, latinum and supply levels you can select from a list of station parts, ala borg, to make a station.  Once the parts are selected the new station is made and the weapons are powered by supply.  Rough estimates are station stats roughly 2/3 of fed starbase with 10 supply for 1 pulse phaser salvo @ 2 sec reload; 15 supply for 1 phaser shot @ 3 sec reload; 20 supply for a torpedo volley @ 5 sec reload; 40 supply for a quantum torpedo volley @ 8 sec reload; fleet cap of 3.

3.) Now a slight variation on #2 would be that the weapons are powered by special energy but the station doesn't regenerate special energy so you "convert" supply into special energy in a batch.  This batch conversion not only has a cooldown timer it takes time to complete like research .  The stations special energy level may or may not be modified by leveling up.  Rough estimates are station stats roughly 2/3 fed star base with special energy level at 1500 with no regeneration; 20 special for 1 pulse phaser salvo @ 2 sec reload; 30 special for 1 phaser shot @ 3 sec reload; 40 special for a torpedo volley @ 5 sec reload; 80 special for a quantum torpedo volley @ 8 sec reload; fleet cap of 4.

4.) A station that has no weapons on it's own, it has to build weapons nodes or "pucks" for a high supply cost.  The nodes are built onto the station like the old Fed science with build limits on type of weapon node; a hefty build time and a cooldown timer on building nodes.  Rough estimates are not available at this time.  The "pucks" are engine free weapons platforms that the station makes with a build limit and throws out the front door like a bag of trash.  The station may or may not being able to turn to place puck's around itself.  The "pucks" could be thought of like a pile of mosquitoes stuck on fly paper tossing spit balls at passing fleets  . Rough estimates are not available at this time.

posted on August 27th, 2011, 12:42 am

So is Dominion prototype/supply mining, Borg assimilation & Federation Turret refits. Giving that trait to other races removes a race-unique feature.

I agree.

If cloakers (or every race) get strong defense weapons as well, then the balancing and gameplay is really going to be fucked up, or the game overall ends up in complete trenchwars. One thing about FO i really like is the difference in gameplay and strategies for each race, and depending on your gamestyle you may chose for yourself.
You're already able to play, especially in team games, everything between turtling and uber agressive.