Yay more Federation hate-mail!

posted on June 26th, 2010, 10:18 am

Ok. Federation are STILL overpowered.

1. Free ships: I feel this is as good as cheating. And what I mean by this is, how someone might use a hacking program to change values to get free ships. Really it needs a charge on it. Now I know most would argue by saying "Well, you need SF Engineering and SF Science first, THEN you need to make SFC". BUT, that does not maike up for the fact Feds can STILL get FREE ships. And still blast out other ships from their yards.

1(a). An idea would be to slap a supply charge onto it. When you use a warpin (either normal or Descent), it charges you 25 supplies.

2. Turrets: We have all discussed this before. We know Feds have OP Turrets.

2(a). An idea would be to take away the passive (Ablt-Armour), and when you select a turret to build, it takes extra time to construct.


P.S. One other thing, with the Dominion. It feels like spamming Bombers vs Borg is a bit of an exploit or whatever. The torps as good as always hit, and in numbers Borg cant do much about it. Wonder if something could be added to decrease amount of slaughter Bombers do to Borg? Thanks.

[Brother Gabriel]

posted on June 26th, 2010, 10:40 am

Last edited by Brother Gabriel on June 26th, 2010, 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

hm, at least masons torpedo turrets suck pretty much right now. they spread the damage to much, so my personal choice are the phaser turrets. Concentratet firepower > spread firepower 

about the sfc: See boggz, once again. U can do what u want, every week someone thinks that u get the ships for free and that they can blow up something. Sfc is not worth all the shit, u can tweak it there and there, but someone will always feel that the "free" ships can blow up something that did "cost" something.

bombers ... yeah, they are nearly a sure things to bet on. Exept the borg guy just assimilates em ...  . Doesnt work with optimize so far i know

posted on June 26th, 2010, 10:58 am

1. Free ships: I feel this is as good as cheating. And what I mean by this is, how someone might use a hacking program to change values to get free ships. Really it needs a charge on it. Now I know most would argue by saying "Well, you need SF Engineering and SF Science first, THEN you need to make SFC". BUT, that does not maike up for the fact Feds can STILL get FREE ships. And still blast out other ships from their yards.

As you said the ships coming from SFC aren't free. You can't spam them and you don't need a massive fleet to fight three ships back or even to destroy them.
Warp-in sucks. It sucks a lot. But it's not that OP.

2. Turrets: We have all discussed this before. We know Feds have OP Turrets.

2(a). An idea would be to take away the passive (Ablt-Armour), and when you select a turret to build, it takes extra time to construct.

They might have OP turrets. But who builds / has time and resources to build em anyway? 

P.S. One other thing, with the Dominion. It feels like spamming Bombers vs Borg is a bit of an exploit or whatever. The torps as good as always hit, and in numbers Borg cant do much about it.

What about assimilating them? 

posted on June 26th, 2010, 1:30 pm

What about assimilating them? 

Been there. Done that. Got the T-Shirt: "Tried assimilating Bombers but there was too many so special weapon energy ran out, and the Assimilators are too slow to run to cover so they go boooooom..."

posted on June 26th, 2010, 1:52 pm

Been there. Done that.

Got the T-Shirt: "Tried assimilating Bombers but there was too many so special weapon energy ran out, and the Assimilators are too slow to run to cover so they go boooooom..."

Did you play online or against the AI? If you played online your opponent must have been
* pretty fast and
* pretty rich
to build a mass of bombers you couldn't deal with.

I'd like to try that some time online. I'm curious what went "wrong"

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on June 26th, 2010, 2:59 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on June 26th, 2010, 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

He played against Sg.t Cortez IIRC, the three of us had a long discussion on Tunngle about how Nuke needed to take out the expansion rather than keep directly confronting the fleet that Cortez had sitting in his base. Also there were prototypes in a green nebula. The map was Early Bird.
Really I think Nuke could've won pretty easily, as Cortez only had 4-6 bombers at a time.

I do agree tho that Bombers vs. Borg is unbalanced, as small ships like probes can't take the amount of damage from that many torps and survive (what's worse is that both Probes and Scubes take extra damage due to being short ranged and the Bomber's passive), while big ships take every single torp. Breen Cruisers are a similar story, tho probe spam (9 of them) does work against a smaller number of Breen Cruisers (6-8.)

As far as Warp-in:
I agree, free ships anywhere on the map is still a problem, what's worse is that Feds are actually a little underpowered when they don't use Warp-in (mainly due to build times.)

I had a 3v3 yesterday where I had to quit after the two Fed opponents (it was Rom/Rom/Dom on my team vs. Fed/Fed/Borg) both warped in to me and my teammates expansions around the same time. Our Mogais hadn't even gotten the minings halfway up when three free ships just come out of nowhere.

Sure I wasn't doing my natural expansion first, but that doesn't make a big difference as I did have ships to defend (a Shrike, a Rhienn, and a Leahval.) I was trying to double expand (other expansion was also scouted by Feds a little after they obliterated my first try, so had I expanded only to my natural I would've only slightly delayed the warp-in by less than 30 seconds), so that my production would be able to keep up with the Feds. The map was too large so I couldn't help my teammates defend their expansions from Warp-ins and they couldn't help me defend my expansion.

Basically, warp-in is a "free harassment force that can kill a constructor with ease" button, and it's available usually around the time people are expanding. Isn't warp-in intented to be a defensive device, either to protect stuff while the main fleet is away, or to bolster your fleet? I mean it is sending a distress signal...

posted on June 26th, 2010, 3:23 pm

Hmm, what about changing warp-in to only be placed where you currently have visibility/scouting?

posted on June 26th, 2010, 3:26 pm

yay, ventures will become popular again !  still, pretty much the same then

posted on June 26th, 2010, 3:29 pm

Hmm, what about changing warp-in to only be placed where you currently have visibility/scouting?

This would help a little, and make sense as Starfleet's not gonna just send their ships blindly into what could be a huge trap. It will probably just end up with people parking scouts next to enemy expansions and the same problem will happen. It would be a tiny bit better.

posted on June 26th, 2010, 3:32 pm

I'm sure there was a topic about adding a countdown before you can use it.

posted on June 26th, 2010, 4:16 pm

Nuke, you can't just keep coming into the forums every time you have a game where you lose/quit or what not and then post a thread about how much some other faction other than Romulans or Borg is so damned overpowered! Think before you post.

Ok. Federation are STILL overpowered.

1. Free ships: I feel this is as good as cheating. And what I mean by this is, how someone might use a hacking program to change values to get free ships. Really it needs a charge on it. Now I know most would argue by saying "Well, you need SF Engineering and SF Science first, THEN you need to make SFC". BUT, that does not maike up for the fact Feds can STILL get FREE ships. And still blast out other ships from their yards.

The devs have already said they will get a cost in 3.1.3. If you can't stop a build which goes directly to SFC I don't know what to say. You get HALF as many ships as a person who didn't do that strategy - so I guess that means the other strategies must be SUPER EXPEALIDOCIOUSLY overpowered, right?

1(a). An idea would be to slap a supply charge onto it. When you use a warpin (either normal or Descent), it charges you 25 supplies.

Already discussed in 5 other threads, some of which you've posted in. Go hunting!

2. Turrets: We have all discussed this before. We know Feds have OP Turrets.

2(a). An idea would be to take away the passive (Ablt-Armour), and when you select a turret to build, it takes extra time to construct.

Stop setting up strawmen - Federation turrets are not overpowered and there are SO many ways to deal with them for each faction. Just because you are rushing in units to hit the turret instead of the units and bases around them doesn't make them a problem. A Torpedo Turret already costs more than a HWP and is weaker.

P.S. One other thing, with the Dominion. It feels like spamming Bombers vs Borg is a bit of an exploit or whatever. The torps as good as always hit, and in numbers Borg cant do much about it. Wonder if something could be added to decrease amount of slaughter Bombers do to Borg? Thanks.

The Bombers take much more damage from long ranged units, no to mention they are forward firing. It's not the game that's broken - it's that you need to try new things. These sorts of posts are coming from you fairly regularly and that should tell you something. Please try something new.

[funnystuffpictures]

posted on June 26th, 2010, 4:51 pm

Last edited by funnystuffpictures on June 26th, 2010, 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ok nuke, Im gonna give you a link to the guide's counter tables. The reason why you keep losing is because your enemy knows the counters, and you don't. This game is a strategy game that requires a lot of micro, and a lot of background knowledge. If you don't like that, why don't you just stick with Star Trek Online?

Strategy - The Hitchhiker's Guide to Fleet Operations

Ok. Federation are STILL overpowered.

1. Free ships: I feel this is as good as cheating. And what I mean by this is, how someone might use a hacking program to change values to get free ships. Really it needs a charge on it. Now I know most would argue by saying "Well, you need SF Engineering and SF Science first, THEN you need to make SFC". BUT, that does not maike up for the fact Feds can STILL get FREE ships. And still blast out other ships from their yards.

Here's the thing nuke, every time you lose you say it's because someone cheated or things are op. Instead of throwing all of your anger towards something onto the forums, why don't you use it to get yourself back in the game? Seriously? What do you think this game is about? Playing until the odds are against you and then quit? After you left that game we played yesterday, Mort won!

Now about the warpins. No they are not free; it takes a lot o f time, and a lot of resources.  You only get them once every 3 minutes, and you can only have a max of 10. If you ask me, it isn't any different than fighting cloaked races, except they can have an unlimited amount of ships doing it.

So the next game you have, why don't you try being the federation, tech to sfc, and use warpins? Its probably not gonna work for you so you will come back saying they suck, as it is micro that makes them powerful, just like everything else in this game. You have know what to attack at the right moment just like everything else in the game. Victory doesn't always come so easy in this game, but never give up as there's always a chance, even if the odds are against you.

posted on June 26th, 2010, 6:34 pm

WarpIn ships will never get a cost associated for warping them in. It is not like cheating. You pay quite a lot to achieve it, and their usage is limit - its not like you can warpin armadas.. not yet..

just kidding

posted on June 26th, 2010, 6:47 pm

Wait a sec... Optec, didn't you tell me that the Planet Killer was warping in for the Experimental Warp-In for 3.1.3? Or was that a secret... 

posted on June 26th, 2010, 6:53 pm

I had a 3v3 yesterday where I had to quit after the two Fed opponents (it was Rom/Rom/Dom on my team vs. Fed/Fed/Borg) both warped in to me and my teammates expansions around the same time. Our Mogais hadn't even gotten the minings halfway up when three free ships just come out of nowhere.

Hey, I was in that 3v3.  You quit before I could switch to All chat and discuss anything.

That matchup was more of a player imbalance than anything.  Beat is getting better, Butters has become a strong player, and I've been known to win a game or two.

One of the opposing players was simply making a line of Dominion phaser sentries, so he didn't have very many ships.  When I warped in on the far corner, the only "defense" that was there was a bomber prototype.  That's what happens when one of your team mates is learning the ropes, playing breen avatar, and only has one shipyard, switching from bugs to bombers to try and counter intrepids before getting any ships out at all.

I haven't been playing as much lately, but I'll start sliding into some more games, so that I can be aware of where everyone is at and help create better balanced games.  This was not an issue of warp in, however.  Roms are VERY powerful this patch, and so are the Dominion if you're versed in playing them.

So this Planet Killer.  Does it come in red, or black?