Steam runner replacement?

posted on May 25th, 2010, 7:58 pm

the intrepid: when you are fielding intrepids as your only arty your enemy probably has a turret or two at their expansion at most. as mentioned earlier the intrepids special will devestate these turrets. whats more, against borg when that pesky sphere is trying to slink away into the night like a romulan, you can trigger a bunch of intrepid specials at once and stop it.

the e2 (also the e1 to a lesser extent): when ranked up an e2 is a monster, good in all games. their special even allows them to defend themselves against smaller ships if necessary.

posted on May 25th, 2010, 8:26 pm

Yeah, I like steamrunners how they are, though I love the ship and would rather some other ship was stuck as a artillery bucket.  I always saw it as more of a fast support frigate, but no...the Feds don't need a buildable artil ship.

[Tyler]

posted on May 25th, 2010, 8:34 pm

Last edited by Tyler on May 25th, 2010, 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Besides, you can already build it anyway. Since all you need to do is give yourself a McKinley yard, adding it to a standard shipyard would be redundant.

It would be like putting the Defiant in both the Antares and Eraudi yards.

posted on May 25th, 2010, 9:25 pm

Besides, you can already build it anyway. Since all you need to do is give yourself a McKinley yard, adding it to a standard shipyard would be redundant.

It would be like putting the Defiant in both the Antares and Eraudi yards.

The thing about that is that the McKinley isn't a tech-object of the federation faction ingame, it's a map object and will remain that way as long as it builds the warpins.
Multiplayer won't allow that universally.

[Tyler]

posted on May 25th, 2010, 9:28 pm

Last edited by Tyler on May 25th, 2010, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It's a Federation shipyard and it builds the Steamrunner Class, that's the important part. Even being restricted to IA, it still builds what wouldn't normally be buildable.

For people that want a buildable Steamrunner, it's also very easy to get in game without making the station itself buildable.

posted on May 25th, 2010, 9:52 pm

tyler, i never mentioned otherwise, im just pointing out that in a fair fire range at the same time, its roughly the same to one another and firing angle makes little difference with yellow movement autonomy.

posted on May 25th, 2010, 9:55 pm

My last post was to Raven saying that the Steamrunner already being buildable in the yard is irrelevant to the buildable/not-buildable argument.

posted on May 25th, 2010, 10:44 pm

I really don't like having to place map objects just so I can build a certain ship. I might as well just place the Steamrunners on the map then. Pre-built yards would also be unfair in multiplayer (unless you're both feds with pre-built McKinley.) The buildable or not discussion is about making it an option anytime you want it without having to modify all the maps.

As far as Excel-II vs. Steamrunner:
I really think the Excel-II should just be medium-ranged for its power (give long range to the Remore, as a support ship would logically have powerful enough targeting computers to hit things far off, I mean if it can aim for weak points it must have good targeting.) Steamrunner is dedicated to being artillery, Excel-II just happens to get a long range. Excel-II does fit as artillery, but I think that it shouldn't.

Intrepid vs. Steamrunner:
You do realize that that Tricobalt Torp is a special that needs special weapon energy, right? It sure does make for a little bit of artillery every so often, but you can't just let it autofire because the time it takes to replenish makes manually targeting enemy ships/stations a must; other races get artillery you don't have to constantly micromanage (well the Romulans do need to be careful about where their own ships are, but it does fire automatically.) The Intrepid is also short-ranged overall, so it doesn't exactly make it very efficient as artillery. Might as well just send it up close to the enemy and fire a tricobalt at a turret on the way there.

Btw, I think you guys mentioned the Remore special a bit earlier in here, well I think that needs a nerf. One-shot tends to completely take away a Cruiser's shields. Get five Remores and the battle is pretty much won unless you're facing the Borg. I haven't played multiplayer so I've only seen the Remore special pwn against AI, but it sure does seem exploitable.

posted on May 26th, 2010, 12:32 am

You guys are still missing a crucial idea here:

  You are all working under the assumption that units functioning as Artillery have to be Artillery Range.  This is not the case.

  Artillery is anything that fires from long range and has powerful weaponry, but generally is slower and more vulnerable to short range interceptors.  The Excel 1 and Excel 2 fit that bill.  They are the long range heavy torp ships that fire on enemy turrets, structures, or even against fleets without much fear of retaliation.

    You need to start thinking of those ships in that role.  Steamrunners as they are now are exceedingly powerful.  Having the steamie we have now as buildable would be an incredible balance-thrower as they are devastating with their special.  Once ranked they can level buildings or ships in seconds.

  Federation are not a race of "One size fits all".  They are flexible and use many ships to equal a task.  Start using the long range ships in their purpose: to fire at long range ... The Excel 2 doesn't need to be vet to be an artillery ship.  It's a long range Cruiser with devastating torpedo weaponry.  Use it for that.  The Intrepid may be a special-case artillery ship, but that's all you really need it for anyway.  It can level a turret with a small group and that's what you really need artillery vessels for.


    Enough with this "since the Feds don't have a buildable and dedicated Artillery range ship, they CLEARLY need one".  Start using other ships combined with other ships to achieve your end.

 

  OR


  Just start asking for Transphasic Torpedoes and a Photonic Cannon for the Intrepid at Artillery Range .

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on May 26th, 2010, 1:02 am

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on May 26th, 2010, 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Not all of us equate artillery with artillery range actually...hence why I consider even unranked Excel-IIs as artillery.

About making the Steamrunner buildable:
a). I'm certain the devs could balance it out so it's less of a base-leveller
b). Read the thread title, this is about a Steamrunner Replacement, about adding a Federation dedicated-artillery ship of some kind. I do want the Steamrunner buildable, but that is an issue for other threads. I won't discuss whether the Steamrunner should be buildable further in this thread.

I agree Feds should have varied mixed fleets, but I would really like being able to have some kind of dedicated (and buildable) artillery.

posted on May 26th, 2010, 1:20 am

Yeah boggz, read the thread title, NERD.  It's about the steamrunner

[move]Replacement [/move]



The Norway, Excel 1, Excel 2, Remore, Defiant, Akira, and Avalon are clearly not enough to handle entrenched positions (which is what you use artillery units for), what with their range and/or specials that aid them in taking out strongholds.  We clearly need more ships to handle that sort of thing.

Oh, and all warp in ships should be buildable and we should see older ships, like the Constitution class.  And the Galaxy should have double the stats and have saucer separation.

posted on May 26th, 2010, 1:47 am

Oh, and all warp in ships should be buildable and we should see older ships, like the Constitution class.  And the Galaxy should have double the stats and have saucer separation.

Couldn't resist?

posted on May 26th, 2010, 1:50 am

I've had a change of heart.  It's clearly the best idea ever.

posted on May 26th, 2010, 2:10 am

I've had a change of heart.  It's clearly the best idea ever.

  I second that .  I also want Defiants to come with cloak, be x3 stronger, and do extra damage to Bugs and B'rels (cause we saw lots of pew pew in the show) .

posted on May 26th, 2010, 2:25 am

guys honestly, you do this to every post at some point,

some of us are trying to actually discuss this in a serious manner, if you cant deal with what people say, then dont respond to it,

if all those others ships already do the role of artillery and are so damn powerful, and make feds an uber race as you allege, then why dont we get an artillery ship, and balance out all the other fed ships so they dont do every single job, and then we will have a balanced fed, how does that sound? and then maybe you guys will stop complaining about how all of the feds ships can do everything and are so powerfull